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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
LeapOfFaith89

Transgender using their preferred bathroom

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On one level, transgender people are truly mentally ill people who need help to deal with reality. But on an other level, it offends me that I'm a bad person if I don't want a grown biological man entering the women's bathroom or a biological woman going into a men's bathroom. I just men the one with multiple stalls. I personally don't care if they are just individual toilets like those in most Starbucks or if you're bringing in your kid to take care of business. Is it fair of me to be uncomfortable with the idea of a man in a dress using the woman's restroom even if he really thinks he's a she?

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Is it fair of me to be uncomfortable with the idea of a man in a dress using the woman's restroom even if he really thinks he's a she?

 

 

 

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13015518_628016954016744_3060565749886830011_n.jpg.ef4c80a3b7169c6ff6c3e1edbc9162a0.jpg

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I love that cartoon, thanks for posting it, William. ;) All of this self-identification nonsense is bad enough, but now we are expected to cater to them in as many situations as possible, whether we are comfortable with it or not. We must protect that person's individual rights, but what about OUR right to not have a person of the opposite sex in the next stall? We aren't supposed to take that person out of his or her comfort zone, but we are expected to launch ourselves clear out of our own. I don't like it and I think boycotting Target and any other business that tries to force this on us, is an excellent idea. Of course, the transgender person wouldn't tolerate being forced to use a third restroom aimed solely at transgender people as that would be another form of exclusion in their minds. So, basically, we who self-identify as what we actually are, are the only ones being forced to change. I consider that a strong indicator of unfairness aimed at the "normal" people and I think all of these "catty" people need to go find a nice clean litter box and leave the rest of us alone.

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I love that cartoon
I agree.

 

 

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[Note: I mean no disrespect to anyone with the following post, I just honestly wish to hear some feedback on this matter]

 

I'd like to hear your opinions about the people who didn't get to choose to be transgender...meaning hermaphrodites who had a gender correction operation done.

 

There are various medical conditions (induced by medication during pregnancy, hormonal problems of the fetus, etc) where:

  • a geneticaly male person (with XY chomosomes) is born with the outer genitals of a female , and
  • a geneticaly female person (with XX chromosomes) is born with the outer genitals of a male

 

Both appear as if they were of the opposite gender, but also both of them have the correct set of gonads (ovaries/testes) albeit disfunctional.

 

Whenever there is a caryotype available (the chromosome test), the birth certificate will have the genetic gender on it.

 

Some of these people might not have the money or means to change back into their inteded (genetic) gender and remain hermaphrodyte.

Some others proceed with the operation, but if they do they are classed as transgender because their birth certificate was written in regard to what their genitals look like and not what their chromosomes are.

 

My bottomline is that these people didn't mess with their gender as some sort of perversion and most of them like to keep these things to themselves, and proceed with their life leaving their medical mishap behind them.

 

This bathroom law would not only compromise their medical privacy, but also potentialy instigate some huge misunderstandings.

 

What happens then?

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Am I correct to assume that a transgender is a homosexual? I mean a man who is gay and dressed as a woman but physically is man. Or a woman who dresses as a man but has the sex organ of a woman. I am clarifying the definition because here in the Philippines we call those who had surgery as transgender and those without surgery as cross-dresser. But anyway, maybe the definition of the bathroom would depend on the sex organ. A gay man is still a man if he has the sex organ of a man so that means he should be using the men's room. For a woman who is a lesbian, no matter how he acts and dresses like a man is still a woman in terms of her sex organ so she should use the ladies' room. It's that simple for me.

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Good point @Corzhens , not all transgenders have undergone a gender change operation.

It is more practical that people go wherever is best suited for their anatomy, but when you add post-operative transganders to the equation things can get awkward.

I think we'll see a lot of weird compromising solutions until a balance is achieved, I wouldn't be surprised if some malls decide to put urinals in women's bathrooms as well...

Hopefully in the end we'll end up looking back at this whole deal with a smile and a laugh.

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There are various medical conditions (induced by medication during pregnancy, hormonal problems of the fetus, etc) where:

  • a geneticaly male person (with XY chomosomes) is born with the outer genitals of a female , and
  • a geneticaly female person (with XX chromosomes) is born with the outer genitals of a male

Both appear as if they were of the opposite gender, but also both of them have the correct set of gonads (ovaries/testes) albeit disfunctional.

These are not transgender in the sense we are discussing. A transgender is someone who is either male or female physically but considers himself to be of the opposite sex.

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The real issue behind the transgender bathroom comes down to objective versus subjective truth. In order for transgenderism to be true, then objective truth must not be true. Gender is a natural distinction between people, just as ethnicity is. Both are things that people are born with, due to no fault of their own. 'Gender identity' however, is a fickle distinction based upon how someone feels about themselves. It is a subjective opinion.

 

Legally, this shouldn't be an issue. Laws are best when they are based on universal principles and morals. As soon as it is subjective, then the laws are not as effective. Basing laws on how one 'self-identifies' weakens the moral impetus of the laws themselves.

 

In the scientific community, transgender individuals are classified as having gender dysphoria, a medical condition that needs to be treated or cured. So why are we 'validating' or 'accepting' instead of treating?

 

(on another aside, accepting transgenderism must mean accepting their terminology (which must require the abolition of gender altogether): transgender, and cisgender (everyone else). How much more androgynous can you get?!?

 

This defies common sense, if people were thinking with their brains, this wouldn't be an issue

 

 

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In the scientific community, transgender people (and other animals, for that matter) are known to be people with any or a combination of "birth defects" which either result in MIS-IDENTIFICATION of gender at birth, or the inability to assign gender. What gender is someone who is xxy, or xyx? What gender is a chimeric person who is one sex one the left hand, the other on the right, or different sexes top and bottom? 10% of all transgender humans are chimeric.

A few years ago a had a neighbor who had spent 47 years in a state institution because he/she was an hermaphrodite. His father wanted to leave him in the Smokies as an infant because "he (was) an abomination to the Lord." He was not.

My family was once big in the cattle business. I know what a "free-martin" is.

Being "transgender" has nothing to do with choice. How we treat these children of God IS a matter of choice.

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In the scientific community, transgender people (and other animals, for that matter) are known to be people with any or a combination of "birth defects" which either result in MIS-IDENTIFICATION of gender at birth, or the inability to assign gender. What gender is someone who is xxy, or xyx? What gender is a chimeric person who is one sex one the left hand, the other on the right, or different sexes top and bottom? 10% of all transgender humans are chimeric.

A few years ago a had a neighbor who had spent 47 years in a state institution because he/she was an hermaphrodite. His father wanted to leave him in the Smokies as an infant because "he (was) an abomination to the Lord." He was not.

My family was once big in the cattle business. I know what a "free-martin" is.

Being "transgender" has nothing to do with choice. How we treat these children of God IS a matter of choice.

 

You're confusing gender with sex. Sex is what you are genetically xx, xy, xxy, or xyx. Gender is what you are psychologically. Transgender people are people whose sex doesn't match while cisgender people are people whose gender and sex match. Someone who is chimeric has genetic ties to both the female and male sex and will decide what gender they want to live their life as. But someone who is transgender is someone who is born male but thinks they are female because they like certain things that are traditionally female or because they have body dysmorphia where they look at their body and don't feel their image of themselves matches their physical body. These people take hormones and undergo surgery to make their body match their gender. They are not people who have xxy or xyx. And some of these people do chose to be transgender because someone is telling them that gender is a social construct and they can be whatever they want.

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You obviously know absolutely nothing about basic biology, Sexual or gender identity is strongly related to the physical structure of the brain. A person who is transgender has a medically identifiable condition such as hermaphroditism, undescended testicles, or chimerism. It is not a matter of someone just deciding to be different. Body dimorphism as a reason for transgenderism was rejected by reputable authorities years ago. How many suicides or even murders will it take for people to understand this simple fact?

 

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You obviously know absolutely nothing about basic biology, Sexual or gender identity is strongly related to the physical structure of the brain. A person who is transgender has a medically identifiable condition such as hermaphroditism, undescended testicles, or chimerism. It is not a matter of someone just deciding to be different. Body dimorphism as a reason for transgenderism was rejected by reputable authorities years ago. How many suicides or even murders will it take for people to understand this simple fact?

 

I took both an anthropology and a psychology class in college to know that there is a difference between sex and gender. I was only trying to correct your use of them because you were using them interchangeably when they mean separate things. There are certain cultures that have seven different genders in their society while there are only two biological sexes, if you don't count abnormalities. Hermaphroditism, chimerism, and other physical deformities due to biological problems during gestations shouldn't be confused with people with transgenderism. Yes, some people who suffer hermaphroditism and chimerism get surgery to correct the assumed gender the doctor gave them. But some people are genetically xx or xy and want to be the opposite. And yes, you are technically right transgenderism isn't a form of body dysmorphia. It has gotten it's own classifications as Gender Identity Disorder but has been changed into gender dysphoria because it's less offensive. GID has been in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and so while it's not body dimorphism it's a mental disorder because it's causes the person distress to be in their body. You are confusing biology with psychology. While there are probably biological reason for people to be transgender, there are also social ones.

 

If you have two x chromosomes, and feel like a female, I don't care if you come into the women's bathroom, even if you have a third chromosome. It is the people with a xy chromosome that I'm concerned about. How do you separate out the transpeople who just can't afford to transition, from the no-passing transpeople who have transitioned, to the rapist in a dress, and the gender fluid? There are people out there that label themselves as gender fluid, who can be female one day and male the next. Do they get to use both bathrooms based on what they feel that day? At that point, what is the point of having separate bathrooms? And how do I tell if the person who looks like a dude in a dress is a real transgender or planning to rape me? That is what I'm asking. I don't care about hermaphroditism or chimerism, those are biological reasons why your sex and gender might not match. If people can chose if they are male or female depending on the day and GID is a real mental disorder, should people of the opposite sex be allowed into their chosen gender specific bathrooms? I'm only talking about xx going into xy bathrooms and xy going into xx bathrooms, not xxy or xyx.

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If you choose to make up your own definition for "transgender", there is nothing I can do for you. Transgender is a condition based on a person whose gender does not fit a narrow concept of male /female. It would be easy to make it illegal to PRETEND to be transgender. Homosexuality is an entirely different concept. You need to learn what a rapist is.

What is gender fluid? Is it different in men and women?

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If you choose to make up your own definition for "transgender", there is nothing I can do for you. Transgender is a condition based on a person whose gender does not fit a narrow concept of male /female. It would be easy to make it illegal to PRETEND to be transgender. Homosexuality is an entirely different concept. You need to learn what a rapist is.

What is gender fluid? Is it different in men and women?

 

I think some states are on the right track by requiring one to use the gender on their birth certificate. What you are pointing to Thomas is a condition that is found in 1 in 2000-3000 people. As you also stated there is a difference between "pretend" transgender and homosexuality. Certainly, people with actual medical "defects" will have no problem providing documentation. Otherwise I'm sure the general population would not even know, that is unless the LGBT~Q activists parade them in front as agenda driven "poster children".

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But their birth certificate will still have the same error! Yes, about 1 in 2000 live births are KNOWN to be transgender, but the number of people with these types of birth defects appear to be higher. Only a few years ago it was thought that chimeric people were extremely rare, probably not more than one or two in the entire world population. And just why are YOU so scared of homosexuals? Either you are or you aren't.

Can you supply any documentation of cross-dressing rapists sneaking into women's restrooms? I bet you can find plenty of instances of transgender people, especially those considered male at birth, being raped or murdered.

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Yes, about 1 in 2000 live births are KNOWN to be transgender, but the number of people with these types of birth defects appear to be higher.

 

That is, 1 in 2000-3000 births. And obviously your number "appears" inflated according to your narration.

 

Can you supply any documentation of cross-dressing rapists sneaking into women's restrooms? I bet you can find plenty of instances of transgender people, especially those considered male at birth, being raped or murdered.

 

Why would sexual predators even need to bother to cross dress?

 

Do you even understand the issues?

 

And just why are YOU so scared of homosexuals?

 

Now you're projecting trying to get personal. Lemme ask, do you have a mirror down in your basement with the back of women's shoes cut out on the floor in front of it?

 

Why don't you do a search for sexual predators surrounding Target or other states where that depraved side of the mirror you stand on has gained power?

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I always wonder when people express homophobia. Being certain of my heterosexuality, have no reason to fear people for being homosexual. I do fear REPRESSED homosexuals, who tend to be dangerous people.

I used to have a musician friend who was very homophobic. The last I heard of him, he was living in a gay swinger group!

I am a intellectual man who stands all of 5'4". When I was young I was constantly being harassed by low intellect thugs. They seemed to love to accuse anyhone they didm't like o f being "queer". I have no trouble understanding the grief transgender people must face

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I always wonder when people express homophobia. Being certain of my heterosexuality, have no reason to fear people for being homosexual. I do fear REPRESSED homosexuals, who tend to be dangerous people.

 

Why would you fear repressed homosexuals? Do you fear them over repressed heterosexuals?

 

I used to have a musician friend who was very homophobic. The last I heard of him, he was living in a gay swinger group!

I am a intellectual man who stands all of 5'4". When I was young I was constantly being harassed by low intellect thugs. They seemed to love to accuse anyhone they didm't like o f being "queer". I have no trouble understanding the grief transgender people must face

 

Whatever you say ya frizzy haired puckered brown eyed lad.

 

 

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I love the meme, William and couldn't agree with it more! There was a man on the news who identifies as a dragon. Which raised the question in our home, so if we identify as a dog, can we just use the restroom anywhere? Will we be charged with indecent exposure? If the transgender bathroom law is in effect, I personally don't think it will ever end. There is of course the issue of men (or women for that matter) pretending they identify as the opposite sex because they are pedophiles. It has already been happening and it is a perfect excuse for someone who was looking to follow a child into the restroom. I can not change how I feel and if that makes me a bigot or intolerant in certain people's eyes then so be it.

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People would always take advantage of these situations, such as perverts who would jump on the chance on peeking on unsuspecting bathroom users, and to be honest, disguising themselves as a trans person wouldn't be that low if it would mean they can infiltrate bathrooms and dressing rooms and get their fill of people doing their business. I know they thought this would be a progressive thing, but it was a pretty stupid idea to be honest, and the only people that would benefit would be the ones who would want to take advantage of neutral gender bathrooms. It's a pretty messed up world we are living in.

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Political Correctness unless we are careful, will eventually destroy our society. Call a spade a spade. It hardly matters if a man identifies as a woman, he's still a man and shouldn't be allowed to use ladies bathroom. What's to stop perverts from pretending they identify as the opposite sex to satisfy their voyeuristic desires?

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It seems to me that the only solution for this problem is for businesses to switch to single person restrooms. This will be expensive but it is probably the only way we can guarantee privacy without breaking the law.

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I went to Target the other day and made a beeline right to the bathroom. There's no way I am going to use it or shop at Target. The bathroom doors were wide open and there were women and guys in both bathrooms. People were loitering out in front of it. I left Target where the food court was right outside it. I almost walked right into a Transvestite. Either that or she had the biggest Adam's apple I ever saw on a woman.

 

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The bathroom doors were wide open and there were women and guys in both bathrooms. People were loitering out in front of it.
Sick.

 

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