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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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Origen

Genesis 19:24

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Has any of you noticed this very interesting verse?

 

"Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven" (Genesis 19:24). Both words in bold (i.e. the LORD) are the divine name.

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So much for naturalistic explanations?

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So much for naturalistic explanations?
Yes, but think about it. The LORD sent down sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven.

 

 

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Yes, but think about it. The LORD sent down sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven.

 

Right, God did not cause it to rain down sulfur and fire from naturalistic explanations but rather God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, not by a natural miracle (meteors etc) but by the direct hand of His Son - Vengeance is His Jude 1:7.

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Right, God did not cause it to rain down sulfur and fire from naturalistic explanations but rather God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, not by a natural miracle (meteors etc) but by the direct hand of His Son - Vengeance is His Jude 1:7.
You are correct of course about the sulfur and fire but read the words of the verse closely. Where was the LORD according to the verse? Note the LORD is mentioned twice.

 

 

 

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You are correct of course about the sulfur and fire but read the words of the verse closely. Where was the LORD according to the verse? Note the LORD is mentioned twice.

 

From the Lord out of Heaven. The Son of God had appeared to Abraham in human form. Now the wording brings me to question, whether the Fire and Brimstone, or hell from heaven is from the Father. God the Son from God the Father - Jehovah caused it to rain from Jehovah. There's no distinction made between the hidden and manifested God, between Jehovah upon the earth who called down the Judgment, and Jehovah enthroned in Heaven, who sent it down.

 

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Out of Heaven. The Son of God had appeared to Abraham in human form. Now the wording brings me to question, whether the Fire and Brimstone, or hell from heaven is from the Father. God the Son from God the Father - Jehovah caused it to rain from Jehovah. There's no distinction made between the hidden and manifested God, between Jehovah upon the earth who called down the Judgment, and Jehovah enthroned in Heaven, who sent it down.
There it is. Both are Yahweh. That is the part that gets lost because of our English translations.

 

Here is another one. Yahweh sends Yahweh to dwell in their midst.

 

"For thus said the LORD of hosts after his glory sent me to the nations who plundered you, for he who touches you touches the apple of his eye: “Behold, I will shake my hand over them, and they shall become plunder for those who served them. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent me. Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for behold, I come and I will dwell in your midst, declares the LORD. And many nations shall join themselves to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people. And I will dwell in your midst, and you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you." (Zechariah 2:8-11).

 

In every case "LORD" is the divine name.

Edited by Origen
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There it is. Both are Yahweh. That is the part that gets lost because of our English translations.

 

Here is another one. Yahweh sends Yahweh to dwell in their midst.

 

"For thus said the LORD of hosts after his glory sent me to the nations who plundered you, for he who touches you touches the apple of his eye: “Behold, I will shake my hand over them, and they shall become plunder for those who served them. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent me. Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for behold, I come and I will dwell in your midst, declares the LORD. And many nations shall join themselves to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people. And I will dwell in your midst, and you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you." (Zechariah 2:8-11).

 

In every case "LORD" is the divine name.

 

I think the Geneva's study note nails it: "This must necessarily be understood of Christ, who being God equal with his Father, was sent, as he was Mediator to dwell in his Church and to govern them".

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I think the Geneva's study notes nail it: "This must necessarily be understood of Christ, who being God equal with his Father, was sent, as he was Mediator to dwell in his Church and to govern them".
It is something just glossed over and missed by most readers, and as I point out English translations don't help given the way they render the divine name.

 

 

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Not meaning to sidetrack the thread. Any thoughts on Ezekiel 34:11 ESV - "For thus says the Lord God: Behold, I, I myself will search for my sheep and will seek them out." and Ezekiel 34:11 KJV - "For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out."

 

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Not meaning to sidetrack the thread. Any thoughts on Ezekiel 34:11 ESV - "For thus says the Lord God: Behold, I, I myself will search for my sheep and will seek them out." and Ezekiel 34:11 KJV - "For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out."

That's fine, no problem. Yet I am a little unclear about what you are asking me.

 

 

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That's fine, no problem. Yet I am a little unclear about what you are asking me.

 

 

I have to admit that my initial reading of the KJV had confused me. I, even I, "both will", I was reading it as two persons in the Trinity, rather than "both" "search my sheep and seek them out". Curious, do you think the ESV or KJV conveys the point better, obviously the ESV cleared my misreading up.

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These kinds of mistakes are rather embarrassing, but I keep making them with the KJV as if the KJV is always attempting to outwit me, and is one reason I moved to the ESV. Ezekiel 34:11 was just something I was reading before engaging this thread, and I was wondering if others have issue with the KJV in this way? Perhaps another thread.

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I have to admit that my initial reading of the KJV had confused me. I, even I, "both will", I was reading it as two persons in the Trinity, rather than "both" "search my sheep and seek them out". Curious, do you think the ESV or KJV conveys the point better, obviously the ESV cleared my misreading up.

In this case the word "both" point to the activities of the verbs. The LORD will both search and seek. The NKJV fixes the language.

 

"For thus says the Lord God: “Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out."

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Curious, do you think the ESV or KJV conveys the point better, obviously the ESV cleared my misreading up.
By far the ESV and the NKJV. The KJV interferes with the synonymous parallelism.

 

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