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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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phil boyce-bottoms

The bible isn't violent.

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How comes you don't hear this in a church service? The bible says; "Kill any family member which changes religion". Wtf?! There's something I found on the Internet called; CHERRY PICKING. (Taking the 'best bits') and leaving certain parts which a person doesn't like.

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Mohammad based the Koran on the Old Testament. The Koran is an illegitimate modification of the OT, but it still contains concepts inspired by the OT. One such concept is executing those who teach false religion. People have a right to protect their culture. People have a duty to protect their culture if it’s a good culture. Our generation of Dispensationalists have betrayed God and America because they have not protected America’s Christian culture.

 

Societies do whatever is necessary to protect their cultures. But, modern societies have moved to more sophisticated means than execution, because modern technology affords that luxury. Still, in our society, if you refuse to sell an SSM wedding cake to a same-sex couple, the government will shot you in the head; kill you dead, if that’s what it takes. Cops carry guns to enforce the law , not for decoration. The antichristians who now run this country will do whatever it takes to create and protect the antichristian culture they want to impose on Americans.

 

Unlike Islam, the Israelites didn’t seek to force conversion nor use force to oppress false teaching outside of Israel. Israel had prophets to keep on their religion true, if they’d listen. And, a false teacher in Israel should have been given a chance to stop his false teaching or leave, rather than be executed. When Israel itself became religiously corrupt, God destroyed it.

 

In America, it’s illegal to execute false teachers, and Christians are to obey the law. Our Founding Fathers created a libertarian society to protect Christianity from government that would inevitably corrupt Christianity. It worked pretty will until WWII and the new popularity of false doctrines like Disepensationalism and Pretrib Rapture which lead practicing Christians to betray God, to Hell. I have faith that these false doctrines will eventually be purged from the Church, but there will be a lot of suffering before then.

 

Christianity is a peaceful religion. Our Israel is the Church, not a state.

 

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Staff
Wtf?!

 

Phil,

 

Please do not use vulgarity or abbreviations for vulgar phrases in this forum.

 

There's something I found on the Internet called; CHERRY PICKING.

 

And that is exactly what you're doing.

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When I see people enumerate what they like about their church ("praise music", "sense of community", etc.), there's one big thing that seems to always be missing: Learning about the Bible.

 

There's no school in in Sunday School, no teaching in the Sermon, and not even Bible study in Bible Study. In most churches, it's all fluff. Most preachers I've heard only use a select few Bible verses for window dressing for their sermons, or out-of-context proofs for their pet doctrines. Most Sunday school classes are just warm and fuzzy support groups (or cold and awkward support groups). How is it that people can go to church all their lives, sometimes several times a week, and still know almost nothing about the Bible?

 

Every Christian should have a ready answer for any criticism of the Bible. "It's violent..." "It's full of contradictions..." But, instead, when critics of the Bible challenge Christians, most Christians look like a deer in the headlights. One of the biggest reasons people leave Christianity is because they get only the Atheists' spin of much of what the Bible says. Or, they find that the Bible doesn't match the distorted image mainstream churches present of the Bible.

 

A good preacher should use his sermons to answer challenges by critics. And, I don't mean by announcing the challenge, but simply by actually teaching and explaining the bible, everything in it.

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An Unbeliever's criticisms often redefine Justice and Holiness according to what man deems Just or Holy. Just look at the arguments given by atheist in our forum. They either claim this is Just or that isn't Just, or this man or that man is good. One really has to water down God's Justice or Holiness in order to take the bait in these arguments. They reject God as the Standard Bearer for Justice and Holiness.

 

Lastly, I chuckled at your "deer in the headlight" analogy, Cornelius. Though I tend to believe most people are Pelagian and think they need only a good teacher or a little bit of guidance. They sort of try on the Christian attire until stumped by atheist arguments, then they abandon Christianity for what they deem as the better teacher - which teaching only supports their own unregenerated predisposition.

 

God bless,

William

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How comes you don't hear this in a church service? The bible says; "Kill any family member which changes religion". Wtf?! There's something I found on the Internet called; CHERRY PICKING. (Taking the 'best bits') and leaving certain parts which a person doesn't like.
So many errors, so little time.

 

Error One: The title of this thread The bible isn't violent.

What idiot said that? The Bible recounts many violent events and I don't know anyone who denies it.

 

Error Two: How comes you don't hear this in a church service?

How do you know that it isn't? What is your evidence? Your question assume that isn't so I would like to hear your proof. Oh, by the way I have work my way through the Book of Deut. in a Sunday School class I taught.

 

Error Three: The bible says; "Kill any family member which changes religion".

No it doesn't. Evidently actually reading the text and trying to understand it in its historical, cultural, and theological context is just to much to hope for from you. The text say if a family member tries to "entice you secretly" "you shall not yield to him or listen." That is not the same thing as simply killing someone who changes religion. If they wanted to change religions, then they were free to leave. In fact it is not because they changed religions but because are trying to destroy the family, the nation of Israel, and lead others away to false gods.

 

Error Four: Rather than believing and accepting what others say why don't you do some real research and find out for yourself rather than just accepting what someone say uncritically. Oh that's right, all of that studying and thinking is just too much for your confused mind. It is just too much for you to take. That is except when you find something you want to try and bash the Scriptures and Christianity with.

Edited by Origen
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The context here is if they go out and change religions thats fine, when they try to corrupt others thats not so fine, it would be like today trying to turn people from Christ, not a good idea.

 

As for violence in the Bible, its there, like Samson going hog wild and killing all the Philistines, or Israel being attacked and having to defend herself but in all honesty these things had to happen, God ordered some people women and children killed because they were the Raphaem remnant of the Nephelim, He even ordered even the animals to be killed of the Amalekites,In regard to the Canaanites, God commanded, “In the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them — the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites — as the LORD your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God ”Deu-20:16-18

 

We are His creation and He has full and absolute authority over us it is not murder for Him, IMO its grace and mercy when Christians die and justice for all of us to die because all have sinned and the soul that sins will surely die, God is a God of justice and we will ALL see that justice and we Christians will see perfection and eternal life, but non Christians will see corruption and eternal torment, TODAY is the day for salvation, seek Jesus while He may be found, repent and be saved, He awaits with open arms almost begging you to come to Him and you have never known a perfect fathers true love until you know Christ, its a perfect love that is so great it put Christ (His only perfect son who never sinned) on the cross (He didn't deserve to be there like we do) in YOUR place, whoever reads this please consider NOW is the time, its never too late to come to Christ and He will accept you or He is a liar, and since Hes NO liar Anyone who comes to me I will by no means cast out: JOHN 6-37, so if you're reading this that includes you, come home.

 

May the peace of God be with you

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Since no one else mentioned it, it might be worth pointing out that Deuteronomy contains the national laws for living under a direct rule Theocracy.

If you live in a kingdom with God himself in residence as the government, and you decide that you want to challenge His direct rule by worshiping false gods and encouraging others to do the same, then please do not be surprised if you come up on the loosing end of that exchange.

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“If your brother, your mother’s son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods’ (whom neither you nor your fathers have known, of the gods of the peoples who are around you, near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end), you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him.But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. So you shall stone him to death because he has sought to seduce you from the Lord your God who brought you out from the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and will never again do such a wicked thing among you."

 

So this is the passage that is on debate, right? I interpreted it this way... During those times, those false prophets have wreaked so much chaos to the societies. There was chaos and disobedience because of these false prophets and false teachings. Remember, it was a different time, with a different situation back then. We're looking at it from what we have now. We can actually live peacefully and in a stable way despite our different religions, at least in some countries. But back then, whenever a false prophet or false teachings are made, there can be chaos which God doesn't like.

 

Think of it this way, imagine a small society with a limited amount of water... And one member of the society became very greedy and threatened to get more water than he needs. Since he can actually disrupt the society and put the other members in danger, then it can be justifiable to actually kill him. I would equate this to what the Israelites were experiencing back then. The death of one for the good of the society.

 

God is a very just God. He won't just go around and kill innocent people. He always has His reasons and we know that he has purposes for whatever happens. He isn't a violent God if it's not needed, if we're all obedient. But sadly, that's not really the case especially during those times. And yes, even now.

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There was a line in a movie I saw once that said "religion is flawed because Man is flawed", meaning organized religion as run by flawed humans.

 

The Bible does not promote violence. Only misguided humans who take it out of context use it as justification for such behavior.

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Think of it this way, imagine a small society with a limited amount of water... And one member of the society became very greedy and threatened to get more water than he needs. Since he can actually disrupt the society and put the other members in danger, then it can be justifiable to actually kill him. I would equate this to what the Israelites were experiencing back then. The death of one for the good of the society.

 

 

Good analogy, but how about one member of this society poisons the water.

 

Since we are all here, let's get to one of the most quoted and difficult scriptures among atheists so that we aren't like "deer in headlights" (1 Peter 3:15).

 

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

 

Question and study, it only makes your faith stronger (Romans 10:17)! [h=1][/h]

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There's no reason why people confident and knowledgeable in their faith should be afraid of questions. And sometimes it may even help the questioner understand. If they're open to actually getting legitimate answers, and not simply provocating, of course.

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Good analogy, but how about one member of this society poisons the water.

 

Since we are all here, let's get to one of the most quoted and difficult scriptures among atheists so that we aren't like "deer in headlights" (1 Peter 3:15).

 

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

 

Question and study, it only makes your faith stronger (Romans 10:17)! [h=1][/h]

 

 

 

A good perspective of above verses: https://carm.org/bible-difficulties/genesis-deuteronomy/stone-rebellious-son

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