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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
FalconMan

Qualifications for Elders and Deacons

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FalconMan

As 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 list the qualifications for Overseers and Deacons, there is mention of children - does this mean it is required that an Elder or Deacon has children, and is one enough or are two or more required?

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Becky
Staff

Having kids or kid implies a man that has a different understanding of life then a single guy. Yup i think they should have family.

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William
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On 11/4/2019 at 8:13 PM, FalconMan said:

As 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 list the qualifications for Overseers and Deacons, there is mention of children - does this mean it is required that an Elder or Deacon has children, and is one enough or are two or more required?

This is where I depart from the Westminster Confession unless someone can change my mind. 

 

The quarifications are clearly stated in Timothy 3 but a lot of people reference Paul. Paul was an Apostle and not an "Overseer" or Deacon. The office of Apostle is no longer open. 

 

While I realize that there was a "continuationist" on the Westminster divine committee I do not believe they were correct. 

 

I am open to being edified on this subject but it is so closely linked to my "ceassationist" position that I do not believe a person can change my mind. That is, if arguing that being single  and or childless is exampled by Paul. 

 

Lastly, what can a single virgin tell me about raising a family? That is, apart from an all knowing God? This very thing "abstinence" as a result of the Reformation ended. [Back in the day] Priest were detached from the clergy and family life. It wasn't until Martin Luther put what he preached into practice when he married and brought the priest down to earth in hierarchy. As a result we may relate more to our priest just as Christ empathized with us and became sin on our behalf. Until the Reformation the church held a rather "Gnostic" leaning which taught that flesh was considered sinful or at least had the seeds of sin within. In the Gnostic view the incarnation of Christ was rejected because the divine could never come into contact with the flesh. Likewise, our holy priest could never satisfy passion or be wedded in matrimony before the Reformation in a one flesh union. 

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Knotical

There is also the part about having their house in good order.

 

I do wonder, however, how many of the original leaders of the church actually had families.  From what I recall the bible does not mention much, if anything, about the apostles/disciples wives..  It almost seems like a practice/policy they were instituting without actually living out themselves.  But then of course the life of an apostle did not really lend itself to also being a family man.

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GaoLu

So should a pastor leave the pulpit when his last child leaves the nest?  Or has he already proven himself? Do we make exceptions?

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Becky
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We seem to always make exceptions , The question is should we make exceptions, or should we stay aligned with the Word?

I say yes the old guy has proven himself.  

Lev 19:32  Thou shalt rise up before the hoary head, and honour the face of the old man, and fear thy God: I am the LORD. 
Pro 16:31  The hoary head is a crown of glory, if it be found in the way of righteousness. 
 

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th1bill
On 11/5/2019 at 6:49 PM, Becky said:

We seem to always make exceptions , The question is should we make exceptions, or should we stay aligned with the Word?

I say yes the old guy has proven himself.  

Lev 19:32  Thou shalt rise up before the hoary head, and honour the face of the old man, and fear thy God: I am the LORD. 
Pro 16:31  The hoary head is a crown of glory, if it be found in the way of righteousness. 
 

Too easily we forget, right next, to us stands a member of our Triune Elohim, communing with the Member residing in our Spiritual Heart.

 

Nonesense is exclaimed by many inside the Gathering Place of Worship!  I am Saved, Ruach, a.k.a. the Holy Spirit, rules my life from my Heart, are the Nay Sayers, also, saved?

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FalconMan
On 11/5/2019 at 5:34 PM, GaoLu said:

So should a pastor leave the pulpit when his last child leaves the nest?  Or has he already proven himself? Do we make exceptions?

I would say by the time his last child leaves the nest, he has proven or disproven himself by then.  Afterall, if the kids are still in the home when they should have already left and started their own, that would be a problem 🙂

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Knotical
11 hours ago, FalconMan said:

I would say by the time his last child leaves the nest, he has proven or disproven himself by then.  Afterall, if the kids are still in the home when they should have already left and started their own, that would be a problem 🙂

Depending on the church this could be a problem.  Our denomination will appoint elders and deacons for life.  Unless they choose to resign or move away they will always be an officer of that church.  With that it would basically require some sort of major unrepented sin that would cause the leadership of the church to expel that officer.

 

There are other denominations that have a rotation of elders and/or deacons where every couple/few years they appoint new officers while the ones that were on the board end their stint.  There are pros and cons to both approaches.

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