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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
William

Multiple Question CF Polling: Which is the lesser?

Two Part Poll: Impostors and False Teachers  

10 members have voted

  1. 1. Which are impostors [Light to all nations]?

    • The Catholic Church [Pope]
      3
    • Islam [Muhammad]
      3
    • The Nation of Israel [Modern]
      0
    • None of the above
      3
    • All the above
      4
  2. 2. Which is the best source of theology?

    • PragerU [Jewish]
      0
    • The Blaze [Mormon]
      0
    • Duck Dynasty [Evangelist]
      2
    • All the above
      0
    • None of the above
      8


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Multiple selections are allowed! If you later wish to change your vote you may recast your vote [only your last vote counts]!

 

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I chose Duck because i read the question to be which was the best of those listed. 

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2 minutes ago, Becky said:

I chose Duck because i read the question to be which was the best of those listed. 

Sweating Heat Wave GIF by GIF-THIS

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5 minutes ago, E Morales said:

Answers to Poll 1, Would be Satan 2. The Bible, KJ preferences for the English language. 😀 

Do you differentiate between the Devil and and those that advocate for the Devil and his doctrine? 

 

nervous sweats GIF

 

No doubt we are referring to "the" master counterfeiter here. How many horns does this beast have?

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14 hours ago, William said:

Multiple selections are allowed! If you later wish to change your vote you may recast your vote [only your last vote counts]!

 

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I chose None of the Above for both of my choices . Was I correct ? I was going to choose the Jewish Faith for being the Light To All the World. But I had to understand that the Jewish faith is very conservative and would rather not share something that is so sacred to them with the world.   Was I correct ?

 

13 hours ago, William said:

Do you differentiate between the Devil and and those that advocate for the Devil and his doctrine? 

 

nervous sweats GIF

 

No doubt we are referring to "the" master counterfeiter here. How many horns does this beast have?

7 ,,,,,,,,,,,, ?

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On 10/4/2019 at 8:01 PM, Matthew A.Duvall said:

I was going to choose the Jewish Faith for being the Light To All the World.

What does the modern [today] Jewish faith teach? Do they are do they not reject Jesus Christ [Trinitarian]?

 

Either the church [true Israel] is a counterfeit or the modern nation of Israel is a counterfeit. Which are the faithful remnant known as Israel? Do God's people believe in Jesus Christ or not?

 

That's what I had in mind. Answer any way you wish! But I am bothered that people refer others to those which are listed because they suggest we should support the modern state of Israel for "religious reasoning". 

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6 hours ago, William said:

What does the modern [today] Jewish faith teach?

Just as there are different theological paradigms in Christianity today, there are different branches of Judaism which also have different theological schools of thought.

 

6 hours ago, William said:

Either the church [true Israel] is a counterfeit or the modern nation of Israel is a counterfeit.

Not, all religiously devout/observant Jews are members of the modern nation of Israel! Many are citizens of other countries, and a number of them are not Zionist and do not even support the concept of a political state of Israel!! Think of famous groups like the Neturei Karta and Agudath Israel of America.

Edited by Ben Asher

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Supporting the state of Israel or not is not religious or Biblical that is political .  Jewish people by birth or religion need Jesus Christ as much as any one else. 

 

1Jn 2:19  They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 
1Jn 2:20  But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 
1Jn 2:21  I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 
1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 
1Jn 2:23  Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 
 

1Jn 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 
1Jn 4:2  Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 
1Jn 4:4  Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 
1Jn 4:5  They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 
2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 
2Jn 1:8  Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 
2Jn 1:9  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 
2Jn 1:10  If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 
2Jn 1:11  For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. 
 

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I only chose 1 for the first one because, being a protestant, the Pope is not recognized as the head of the church, even though some consider him to be.  Also, I did not choose muslim, because they are not trying to imitate Christianity, even though the origin of both religions are suggested to be similar.  Yet they are completely different.

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11 hours ago, William said:

Either the church [true Israel] is a counterfeit or the modern nation of Israel is a counterfeit.

Neither of these is a counterfeit.  God chose the nation of Israel.  When they rejected Jesus as their king he temporarily set them aside and formed the church, but he is not yet through with the nation.  After the church is removed from the earth by the rapture he will once again work through the nation.  The book of Revelation speaks of them several times.  When Christ returns they will be converted.  The prophecies of Christ return show the Jews living in their own land, so the modern nation Israel is part of God's plan. 

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18 minutes ago, theophilus said:

When they rejected Jesus as their king he temporarily set them aside

What of all those which have rejected Jesus and died up until now? Are they being set aside?

 

Sorry Theo but I think your theological camp takes away the urgency for the Jewish people to even turn to Christ Jesus. You seem to think there a "clause" in God's plan of redemption. 

 

What cracks me up is in the poll people deny that the state of Israel is not the faithful remnant known as Israel yet they reject those advocates in the second that teach that the state of Israel are God's chosen people. 

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15 minutes ago, William said:

What of all those which have rejected Jesus and died up until now? Are they being set aside?

Individuals who reject Jesus are lost, whether they are Jews or gentiles.  But God made promises to Abraham that apply to all of his descendants.  Today those descendants who believe become part of the church.  A time is coming when the nation will occupy the same place in God's  plan that the church now fills.

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Some how some folks believe if one has Jewish blood in their veins there is some how salvation in the Jewish blood.  What does that view say about the Cross of Christ, except the Cross must be less then complete , The Cross failed?  The Blood of Christ has less value for salvation then human blood. 

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11 minutes ago, theophilus said:

Individuals who reject Jesus are lost, whether they are Jews or gentiles.  But God made promises to Abraham that apply to all of his descendants.  Today those descendants who believe become part of the church.  A time is coming when the nation will occupy the same place in God's  plan that the church now fills.

So John 8:31-47 doesn't pertain to those?

 

31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.

39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[c] do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the deviland you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.

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1 minute ago, theophilus said:

Individuals who reject Jesus are lost, whether they are Jews or gentiles.  But God made promises to Abraham that apply to all of his descendants.  Today those descendants who believe become part of the church.  A time is coming when the nation will occupy the same place in God's  plan that the church now fills.

There for the Body of Christ of which He is the head is only temporary? 

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7 minutes ago, Becky said:

There for the Body of Christ of which He is the head is only temporary? 

In John 3:29, John the Baptist said, "The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete."  The church is called the Body of Christ and also the Bride of Christ.  John's words show that there will be people saved who are not part of this body.

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1 hour ago, Becky said:

Some how some folks believe if one has Jewish blood in their veins there is some how salvation in the Jewish blood.

Nicodemus

 

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49 minutes ago, theophilus said:

In John 3:29, John the Baptist said, "The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete."  The church is called the Body of Christ and also the Bride of Christ.  John's words show that there will be people saved who are not part of this body.

Please exegete that from John 3:29.

 

Why wouldn't the bridegroom be Jesus Christ and those which you say are not part of this body are indeed the body of adopted children of the Father?

 

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4 hours ago, Becky said:

Supporting the state of Israel or not is not religious or Biblical that is political .  Jewish people by birth or religion need Jesus Christ as much as any one else. 

Becky, you just nailed the whole purpose of this poll. I tried my best to establish contradictions between the two questions. 

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15 hours ago, William said:

What does the modern [today] Jewish faith teach? Do they are do they not reject Jesus Christ [Trinitarian]?

 

Either the church [true Israel] is a counterfeit or the modern nation of Israel is a counterfeit. Which are the faithful remnant known as Israel? Do God's people believe in Jesus Christ or not?

 

That's what I had in mind. Answer any way you wish! But I am bothered that people refer others to those which are listed because they suggest we should support the modern national of Israel for "religious reasoning". 

I've seen  denials expressed in two ways when mentioning Jesus to an orthodox Jew  . I've seen some sarcastically say; " But Jewish people definitely do not believe in Jesus." Or the new testament for that fact . Or I have seen them, upon being questioned about the deity of Christ , giving a polite smile with doubtful  facial expressions of no means ,then turning politely and walking off. As for the ones who do show some interest in Jesus , they almost never believe in Him as the Son of God or even any affiliation with the absolute sovereignty of God . No less being God Himself !  But they seem to have no problem with mentioning Him as Messiah . They feel comfortable with that because Messiah limits Hs identity to the Man Jesus with no mention of Him being God Himself .  As for the trinity ,orthodox Jews cannot effectively reason that God is in fact One, but in Three unique Divine Persons.

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4 hours ago, Becky said:

There for the Body of Christ of which He is the head is only temporary? 

 No ! Because there are still souls being elected and saved by grace through faith to this day.

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6 hours ago, theophilus said:

Individuals who reject Jesus are lost, whether they are Jews or gentiles.  But God made promises to Abraham that apply to all of his descendants.  Today those descendants who believe become part of the church.  A time is coming when the nation will occupy the same place in God's  plan that the church now fills.

 

6 hours ago, Becky said:

There for the Body of Christ of which He is the head is only temporary? 

 

1 hour ago, Matthew A.Duvall said:

 No ! Because there are still souls being elected and saved by grace through faith to this day.

@Matthew A.Duvall I do not understand the connection of your post to my reply/question to   Theo's 

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@William I am going to restate my reply:

 

17 hours ago, William said:

Either the church [true Israel] is a counterfeit or the modern nation of Israel is a counterfeit.

 

(1) The above at least as I am hearing the question appears to be a false dichotomy.

 

(2) The modern nation of Israel is a political entity with no claim to spiritual truth. The government of which lacks an evangelistic mission to be a light to the nations.

(2b) When was the last time a missionary from modern state of Israel knocked on your door to bring you some short of gospel? How many actually Israelis have asked you to convert to Judaism?

 

(3) Not all Jews are members of the modern state of Israel so the above statement of yours seems to completely ignore Jewish communities who are not members of the modern state of Israel.

 

(4) A number of Jews continue to hold on the tradition (partly based on Melachim uMilchamot chapter 10) believe that only the real Messiah an individual immersed in God's word can gather the remnant of Israel (as well as the nations as one) and cause them to follow the instructions of God. Neither David Ben-Gurion in 1948, nor Theodor Herzl the father of Zionism could rightfully claimed to be such an individual. The modern state  of Israel was established by well meaning but largely secular individuals not by the Messiah. The state of Israel is from the ground up a political entity with some religious individuals living with in. The state of Israel for that reason is not a counterfeit it is simply not what was promised in Biblical literature nor what was hoped for in traditional Jewish literature either. Comparing the Church to the modern state of Israel is like comparing apples to eggplants.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ben Asher said:

 

@William I am going to restate my reply:

 

 

(1) The above at least as I am hearing the question appears to be a false dichotomy.

 

(2) The modern nation of Israel is a political entity with no claim to spiritual truth. The government of which lacks an evangelistic mission to be a light to the nations.

(2b) When was the last time a missionary from modern state of Israel knocked on your door to bring you some short of gospel? How many actually Israelis have asked you to convert to Judaism?

 

(3) Not all Jews are members of the modern state of Israel so the above statement of yours seems to completely ignore Jewish communities who are not members of the modern state of Israel.

 

(4) A number of Jews continue to hold on the tradition (partly based on Melachim uMilchamot chapter 10) believe that only the real Messiah an individual immersed in God's word can gather the remnant of Israel (as well as the nations as one) and cause them to follow the instructions of God. Neither David Ben-Gurion in 1948, nor Theodor Herzl the father of Zionism could rightfully claimed to be such an individual. The modern state  of Israel was established by well meaning but largely secular individuals not by the Messiah. The state of Israel is from the ground up a political entity with some religious individuals living with in. The state of Israel for that reason is not a counterfeit it is simply not what was promised in Biblical literature nor what was hoped for in traditional Jewish literature either. Comparing the Church to the modern state of Israel is like comparing apples to eggplants.

 

 

Do you believe scattered unbelieving Jews are Israel? I keep hearing about what God will do and I'll ask you what I asked another. What of the Jews which have rejected the Messiah and have died in unbelief?

 

Furthermore I find your response rather unbelievable. That is, it leans toward the side of absurdity. 

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7 hours ago, William said:

What cracks me up is in the poll people deny that the state of Israel is not the faithful remnant known as Israel yet they reject those advocates in the second that teach that the state of Israel are God's chosen people. 

It is clear that the modern mostly secular state of Israel is a not the faithful remnant!

As stated before even Jewish groups like Neturei Karta and Agudath Israel of America also reject any claim to the state of Israel being the faith remnant promised in the Bible. The state of Israel is simply a political state nothing more, and nothing less.

 

Once, again, however, it important to note that numerous Jewish individuals and communities exist outside of the modern state called Israel. The political state of Israel is not one and the same with promised remnant of Israel (or rather She'erit Yisrael) nor is the state of Israel one and the same with all Jewish people.

 

One, can reject to modern political state called Israel, without rejecting the Jewish people around the world as Israel. For example see the Neturei Karta and well as Agudath Israel of America.

I of course am not endorsing either the Neturei Karta nor the Agudath Israel, but I want to make a point.

 

2 minutes ago, William said:

Do you believe scattered unbelieving Jews are Israel?

No, of course not!  The true remnant of Israel are not unbelievers. 

 

4 minutes ago, William said:

Furthermore I find your response rather unbelievable.

What part of my response do you find unbelievable?

 

 

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