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Israel

Will God Save All Mankind?

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Let's try it out then. God will save all mankind. Is this statement true? Most importantly, will this be a GOOD thing that God will do?

 

 

If this is not the case, then who's understanding are you leaning on to base your objection to this?

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2 hours ago, Israel said:

Let's try it out then. God will save all mankind. Is this statement true? Most importantly, will this be a GOOD thing that God will do?

 

 

If this is not the case, then who's understanding are you leaning on to base your objection to this?

False.

 

We have a special place for Universalism:

 

https://www.christforums.com/forums/forum/79-universalism/

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, William said:

False.

 

We have a special place for Universalism:

 

https://www.christforums.com/forums/forum/79-universalism/

False. Why? And who's understanding did you use to come to that conclusion?

 

And this isn't about any religion. Simply posting the ultimate litmus test to the verse provided by the OP.

 

 

Edited by Israel

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6 minutes ago, Israel said:

False. Why? And who's understanding did you use to come to that conclusion?

 

And this isn't about any religion. Simply posting the ultimate litmus test to the verse provided by the OP.

 

 

I used Scripture, and not isolated verses, but rather verses taken into immediate and broad context. Then systematically I referred to the whole of Scripture on the subject matter. Second, I consulted with various historical creeds and confessions gathering information on what the church believed or rejected. Third, I consulted some of the most credible theologians for commentary on the subject.

 

What did you do?

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11 minutes ago, William said:

I used Scripture, and not isolated verses, but rather verses taken into immediate and broad context. Then systematically I referred to the whole of Scripture on the subject matter. Second, I consulted with various historical creeds and confessions gathering information on what the church believed or rejected. Third, I consulted some of the most credible theologians for commentary on the subject.

 

What did you do?

Outside of consulting some ” credited theologian” if you have taken the Bible as a whole into account, then you would've came to the same conclusion.

 

All men have sinned. That includes us, correct. What gives you special acceptance among us legion of sinners? Belief? Well, even the devils believe and tremble.

 

I simply trust Christ. God said it's His will to save all. Christ came to do that will. I won't complicate that with the understanding of another.

 

Who has the power of death? God or the devil?

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48 minutes ago, Israel said:

Outside of consulting some ” credited theologian” if you have taken the Bible as a whole into account, then you would've came to the same conclusion.

 

All men have sinned. That includes us, correct. What gives you special acceptance among us legion of sinners? Belief? Well, even the devils believe and tremble.

 

I simply trust Christ. God said it's His will to save all. Christ came to do that will. I won't complicate that with the understanding of another.

 

Who has the power of death? God or the devil?

So you're a heretical universalist.

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Posted (edited)

I haven't claimed to be anything. Just your impulse to categorize and label me.

 

Again the OP quoted a verse stating to not lean on your own understanding. 

 

The Bible then started with more than one location that God will save all. Are you saying there are verses that says God will not save all?

 

Please post, I'm curious. And if there is a verse that seems to go against the will look God to save all, then who's understanding are you leaning on?

Edited by Israel

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9 hours ago, Israel said:

I haven't claimed to be anything. Just your impulse to categorize and label me.

 

Again the OP quoted a verse stating to not lean on your own understanding. 

 

The Bible then started with more than one location that God will save all. Are you saying there are verses that says God will not save all?

 

Please post, I'm curious. And if there is a verse that seems to go against the will look God to save all, then who's understanding are you leaning on?

520995517_christforums1.jpg.cf09ef5f349b3b27ca94ecea6f3163b7.jpg

 

Betcha think nobody here has heard your arguments before, that is, nobody in 2000 years of church history.

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9 hours ago, Israel said:

The Bible then started with more than one location that God will save all. Are you saying there are verses that says God will not save all?

You provided no scripture to support your contention that "The Bible then started with more than on location that God will save all". Please provided references to support this proposition.

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33 minutes ago, bcbsr said:

You provided no scripture to support your contention that "The Bible then started with more than on location that God will save all". Please provided references to support this proposition.

WWW.TENTMAKER.ORG

'100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind'...

Sure, here's a link with plenty.

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4 minutes ago, Israel said:
WWW.TENTMAKER.ORG

'100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind'...

Sure, here's a link with plenty.

yammering blah blah blah GIF by The Internet

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Lol, wow. So...... the taunts come from the staff on this site, itself. Once again, I am testing the verse. God's thoughts are not ours. Simply post verses to contrary and tell those who are reading if the understanding of such posted verses come from yourself or another man, or God who surpasses all understanding.

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10 minutes ago, Israel said:

Lol, wow. So...... the taunts come from the staff on this site, itself. Once again, I am testing the verse. God's thoughts are not ours. Simply post verses to contrary and tell those who are reading if the understanding of such posted verses come from yourself or another man, or God who surpasses all understanding.

This is a very simple matter to resolve.   Cite ONE verse which clearly states something along the lines of:  "God will save all men, or "the Father will save all men," or "Jesus will save all men."  The site you posted has NO SUCH EXAMPLE!  Not one!  End of story.

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7 minutes ago, Israel said:

Lol, wow. So...... the taunts come from the staff on this site, itself. Once again, I am testing the verse. God's thoughts are not ours. Simply post verses to contrary and tell those who are reading if the understanding of such posted verses come from yourself or another man, or God who surpasses all understanding.

i dont believe it comedy central GIF by The Jim Jefferies Show

 

In case you missed it:

 

https://www.christforums.com/forums/forum/79-universalism/

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4 minutes ago, William said:

i dont believe it comedy central GIF by The Jim Jefferies Show

 

I didn't ask you to believe it. Simply post your proof in scripture. And the only one talking about universalism is you. This again, is a thread about not leaning on YOUR OWN understanding.....

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11 hours ago, William said:

I used Scripture, and not isolated verses, but rather verses taken into immediate and broad context. Then systematically I referred to the whole of Scripture on the subject matter. Second, I consulted with various historical creeds and confessions gathering information on what the church believed or rejected. Third, I consulted some of the most credible theologians for commentary on the subject.

 

What did you do?

@Israel All I know is that you hadn't done all of the above. All you had done was search Google. Now do a search for all those "all verses".

 

After you complete your search read the above because you've done none of the above.

 

I'm going to clip this thread if you persist and begin a new one starting with your Universalism doctrine and move it into the Universalism category because this isn't fair to @bcbsr.

 

"I don't believe it" is simply a gif to express the reoccurring doctrine you're teaching. Nothing new here at all. You provided an online web page with verses you believe prove your Universalism doctrine as true. I'm directing you to the Universalism category which already, largely, addresses those very verses, your doctrine, and narrative (commentary).

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6 minutes ago, Israel said:

And the only one talking about universalism is you.

Now you are being disingenuous.  You posted a link to Thomas Whittemore who was universalist author and member of the Universalist Church of America.  Thus you are obviously taking about universalist.

 

6 minutes ago, Israel said:

This again, is a thread about not leaning on YOUR OWN understanding.....

It is better than leaning on the understanding Thomas Whittemore.

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14 minutes ago, Origen said:

This is a very simple matter to resolve.   Cite ONE verse which clearly states something along the lines of:  "God will save all men, or "the Father will save all men," or "Jesus will save all men."  The site you posted has NO SUCH EXAMPLE!  Not one!  End of story.

1 Timothy 2

 

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

Let's go to a hardly used portion of scripture to second the obvious.

 

Isaiah 25

 

6 And in this mountain shall the Lord of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.

7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

 

I can post these all day. Again if it is a good thing to save all correct?

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5 minutes ago, Israel said:

1 Timothy 2

 

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

I can post these all day. Again if it is a good thing to save all correct?

It is God's will that all men do not break any commandment and not to sin. Do men break commandments and sin? If God desires all men to be saved does that mean all men are saved?

 

THE THEOLOGICAL PROBLEM IN 1 TIMOTHY 2:4. There is a twofold theological problem in this verse: the first aspect of the problem pertains to the will of God: the second aspect of the problem pertains to the universal term "all" as it relates to the salvation of men (i.e., the extent of the atonement). Does God desire to save all mankind absolutely; that is, each and every individual? Or does God desire to save all mankind relatively; that is, all men without distinction of race, nationality, or social position, not all men without exception?

 

Does "all" men mean everyone without exception or men both which were Jew and Greek, of different classes or of every tribe, tongue, and nation?

 

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9 minutes ago, Origen said:

Now you are being disingenuous.  You posted a link to Thomas Whittemore who was universalist author and member of the Universalist Church of America.  Thus you are obviously taking about universalist.

 

It is better than leaning on the understanding Thomas Whittemore.

I simply posted a site that had verses ready to go without having to look them up. Who wrote or designed the page matters not to me. Did you visit for the verses or to confirm your bias towards a man who posted them simply for going to a church who believes that more will be saved than your church believes?

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Thread was split from another and was made into this one.

 

Source thread located here:

 

 

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2 minutes ago, William said:

God desires all men to not break any commandment and sin. Do men break commandments and sin? If God desires all men to be saved does that mean all men are saved?

 

THE THEOLOGICAL PROBLEM IN 1 TIMOTHY 2:4. There is a twofold theological problem in this verse: the first aspect of the problem pertains to the will of God: the second aspect of the problem pertains to the universal term "all" as it relates to the salvation of men (i.e., the extent of the atonement). Does God desire to save all mankind absolutely; that is, each and every individual? Or does God desire to save all mankind relatively; that is, all men without distinction of race, nationality, or social position, not all men without exception?

 

If you desire a cup of water, do you take the steps necessary to get it. Now do you really believe that God, the Creator of ALL THERE IS , can desire something and not get it??? 

 

And to stick once again to the topic, of what understanding do you base this in that God can't get what He desired out of what He made?

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14 minutes ago, Israel said:

If you desire a cup of water, do you take the steps necessary to get it. Now do you really believe that God, the Creator of ALL THERE IS , can desire something and not get it??? 

 

And to stick once again to the topic, of what understanding do you base this in that God can't get what He desired out of what He made?

Do you desire to not sin? Can you not sin?

 

The problem is that your sense of Justice is seriously screwed up.

 

And your last question is made on a faulty premise that God Predestined everyone to salvation rather than passing over some.

 

Some men will receive their due Justice.

 

And what had God made?

 

Romans 9

What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
 

But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”
 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Israel said:
WWW.TENTMAKER.ORG

'100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind'...

Sure, here's a link with plenty.

Looking through the first few verses on your Universalist site, it appears you're drawing false conclusions based upon poor hermeeuetics and simply are exercising circular reasoning - assuming the thing you're trying to prove. 

 

One of your conjectures, and I say "yours" since you affirm the reasoning in that article, is that since everyone is in the family of God (your false assumption) and since God will not disown anyone in his family therefore everyone will be saved. Likewise you assume everyone belongs to Christ, which is not the case.

 

Note it says, "Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—" 1John 1:12 Therefore not everyone is a child of God. In fact it also says, "This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are ..." 1John 1:10

 

Therefore your assumption that everyone is a child of God is false.

 

Secondly it says, "if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ." Rom 8:9

 

Therefore your assumption that everyone belongs to Christ is also false.

 

And since you assumptions are false, so is your universalist conclusion.

 

And this is the kind of folly, the kind of poor hermeneutic and faulty logic that is remiss though your "100 verses".

 

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Staff

The silliness of taking Scripture so very literal show up when women are excluded by so many literal statements . Context matters and taking the whole of Scripture matters . 

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