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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.

What are the factors that make one a Christian?

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2 hours ago, Ronald said:

Praying to Mary is not against the Trinity, it's an empty prayer, since she doesn't hear them.

Praying to idols and\or others gods are also empty prayers, yet it is still sin according to the Scriptures.  Moreover it is beside the point if Mary can or can't hear them.  That does not matter just as in the case of idols and other gods.  The very act itself is wrong.


2 hours ago, Ronald said:

Even if she did, she has no special clout to mediate prayers to the Father.

Exactly!  Therefore it is a false doctrine and false doctrines ought to be anathema to the body of Christ.  Yet they embrace and promote it as true doctrine.


2 hours ago, Ronald said:

IN their mind they are asking Mary to pray for them,

Trying to justify a false doctrine by pointing to the sincerity of the belief proves nothing and can only lead to other false teachings.  Hindus are sincere in their beliefs but they does nothing to prove those doctrines are correct.  Sincere people belief are kinds of things that are in fact wrong but that does not mean we should accept or condone.


2 hours ago, Ronald said:

they don't worship her.

They pray to her.  The very act of prayer is worship.  They make statues of her and bow down before them, even prostrating themselves before it.  They bring it offerings, for example the lighting of candles before it.  Some may claim it is not worship but this is a case of "if it walks like a duck," and this certainly walks like a duck.


2 hours ago, Ronald said:

Some may have believed if Billy Graham prayed for them it  would somehow be more effective then anyone else's prayer - not so.

Group prayer of believers and the asking of prayers from others is found in the Bible and encouraged.  Praying to Mary is found nowhere in the Scriptures.  Therein lies the difference.


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23 hours ago, William said:

You obviously do not understand the difference between Catholic and catholic. Furthermore, doesn't matter what you state as your opinion of what Catholic are or are not what matters is whether Catholics align with the definition of apostate:

You seem to judge  half of Christianity, Catholics, who comprise over 1 billion believers. And I don't have understanding?


23 hours ago, William said:

Apostasy means a falling away. Therefore when we speak of apostasy in the Christian church we are speaking of the visible church falling away from the essential doctrinal truths and becoming false. To apostacize means to abandon previously held beliefs. This abandonment can be on intentional or accidental. There can be individuals and or denominations that purposely repudiate the essential doctrines of the Christian faith.

And you would trash them all in Your Apostate Box and send them off to the Abyss, a narrow judgment based on your assessment of essentials. 

That is the essential, the only essential that He requires. Believing that He died for our sins and rose on the third day according to the scriptures, is the essential belief. And YOU would invalidate a billion Christians based on your judgment and other divisive groups in history.



23 hours ago, William said:

I doubt you'd discern the truth from falsehood if you were trapped in a wet paper bag full of your own self-deception and were given a knife to cut yourself out from within.

Here are some of the scriptures I carry  in my "paper bag" ... I'll share them with you so you can carry them in yours! They all state the same principal. Some like to add to it.


Believing in Jesus is the essential belief:



"but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name."

Mark 11:24


Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

Mark 9:23


And Jesus said to him, " 'If You can?' All things are possible to him who believes."

Romans 10:17


So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

James 2:19


They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

2 Corinthians 4:13


"This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us."

Romans 10:11



John 14:1


"that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;"

John 6:29


Jesus said to her, "Did I not say to you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?"

Mark 5:36


"But Jesus, overhearing what was being spoken, said to the synagogue official, 'Do not be afraid any longer, only believe.' "

1 Peter 1:8


"and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,"

Romans 10:10


"for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

Matthew 18:19


"And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."

2 Thessalonians 2:11


"and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."

James 1:6


"But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind."

John 3:36


"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Mark 16:16


"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

2 Corinthians 5:7


"while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal."

Romans 15:13


Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Luke 1:45


"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Believing In God

John 6:44;6;5


"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name," John 1:12



>>>Why don't you take a few of these scriptures, wait outside a Catholic Church _ just pick anyone _ and ask them if they agree are in agreement??? I charge you!


23 hours ago, William said:

Do you even understand Catholic soteriology? Do you even know the history of indulgences and what led the church into selling them?

I am aware of their history, selling indulgences ... hence God sent correction. But He did not condemn them as you do. 

I would like you to make a Covenant with God right now. If Catholics (Roman Catholics and all Catholics that use that name for their church and identify themselves as such), are NOT APOSTATE and you don't realize that until you see the current billion plus of them in heaven and all of them in history that you put in your Apostate Box, YOU will apologize to each and everyone of them for such condemnations that were false! That will keep you busy for awhile. Let's go further and why not withhold any rewards in heaven and joy until you finish? How about it?

I doubt you you would.

On 9/11/2019 at 10:16 AM, William said:

You're definitely not Protestant. The Catholic Church taught that we are saved by the merits of Christ and the saints, and that we approach God through Christ, the saints, and Mary, who all pray and intercede for us. The Protestant Reformers responded, “No, we are saved by the merits of Christ Alone, and we come to God through Christ Alone” ~ "Solo Christo is one of the five solae that summarize the Protestant Reformers' basic belief that salvation is obtained through the atoning work of Christ alone, apart from individual works, and that Christ is the only mediator between God and man. It holds that salvation cannot be obtained without Christ."


Isn't that against FORUM rules - TO CLAIM SOMEONE IS NOT A CHRISTIAN? Apparently, if I wasn't a Protestant, you would put me in that box of yours with all the other Apostates. I have been a Christian since 1991, baptized in Christ, born again of the Holy Spirit. And YOU, because I rubbed you wrong, attack me in such a vile way. 

We are saved by grace through faith alone, not by works so that none can boast. This is a fact, a truth and if someone doesn't understand it, it doesn't necessarily VOID THEIR FAITH IN CHRIST! They have faith and lean on what James said -- show me your works ... "Faith without works is dead." They don't get that the Holy Spirit is the one doing the works through them. They think that it is their own efforts. Understanding the works of the Holy Spirit, the thoughts and guidance He gives us are not easily distinguishable to many. Many Christians don't get that deep, they just believe.

On 9/11/2019 at 10:16 AM, William said:


  • Desires "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires," (2 Timothy 4:3).
  • False teachers "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many," (Matthew 24:11).
  • "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect," (Matt. 24:24).
  • "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons," (1 Timothy 4:1).
  • Persecution "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another," (Matthew 24:9-10).
  • "and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they fall away," (Mark 4:17).
  • Temptation "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away," (Luke 8:13).
  • Unbelief  "Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God," (Hebrews 3:12).

I am in agreement with all scripture. False prophets lead people away from Christ. Does the Pope do that? do Catholic priests who study and devote and sacrifice their lives fall into that category? Any who fall away, were never saved to begin with. They were like seed planted in shallow or rocky soil. They weren't real believers, born again of the Spirit. If their heads are put on the chopping block, they would denounce the Lord to save their necks.

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44 minutes ago, Ronald said:

.....You seem to judge  half of Christianity, Catholics, who comprise over 1 billion believers. And I don't have understanding? ......Isn't that against FORUM rules - TO CLAIM SOMEONE IS NOT A CHRISTIAN? Apparently, if I wasn't a Protestant, you would put me in that box of yours with all the other Apostates.

Thank you for inciting our TOS which indicates you're aware of the rules. I confidently revoke your membership as you are found in clear violation of our TOS.


You sniveling judgmental whiner which continually excuses your own hypocrisy.


We do not differentiate between "The Devil's Advocate" and the actual Devil. Go elsewhere to promote your doctrine of devils.



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43 minutes ago, Ronald said:

And I don't have understanding?

kenan thompson agree GIF by Late Night with Seth Meyers

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3 hours ago, Ronald said:

You seem to judge  half of Christianity, Catholics, who comprise over 1 billion believers. And I don't have understanding?

Because we know that "over 1 billion 'Catholics'" dictate [the standard) what is orthodox!

2 hours ago, Origen said:

kenan thompson agree GIF by Late Night with Seth Meyers

sarcastic sarcasm GIF


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13 hours ago, William said:

Because we know that "over 1 billion 'Catholics'" dictate [the standard) what is orthodox!


 Even if it was "over 1 trillion 'Catholics'" we know (or at least we should know) that truth is not determined by majority vote when Scripture is being defamed. If truth was/is determined by majority vote then the truth of Christ (His life, teachings and resurrection) would be false (cf. Matthew 7:13-14).

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Just a couple fallacies I identify:


  • Appeal to Popularity: Appeal to Popularity is an example of a logical fallacy. A logical fallacy is using false logic to try to make a claim or argument. Appeal to popularity is making an argument that something is the right or correct thing to do because a lot of people agree with doing it. This type of fallacy is also called bandwagon.
  • Appeal to Authority: Appeal to authority is a common type of fallacy, or an argument based on unsound logic. When writers or speakers use appeal to authority, they are claiming that something must be true because it is believed by someone who said to be an "authority" on the subject.
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On 8/28/2019 at 7:43 PM, Becky said:

Asking for opinions here.

  As a kid i could tell a Pentecostal church lady by her manor of dress; She would be about 10 years behind the styles of the day. NO make-up. Hair pulled back into a an untidy bun at the back of her neck. Heavy dark stockings...  Those things did not ' make ' her a Christian. What make one a Christian? Not asking about being Saved by Grace that is a forgone conclusion .  The words we use or dont use? what we do or dont do?  I was about 40 became friends with a wonderful Christian woman.. At age 40 i was asking myself how can she be Christian when she smokes. Yet i knew/know a lot of fat Christians . What 'makes' us Christians? 

Are we to follow a set of rules? If so who's rules?  God does not put us in a box of regulations .. He said this: 

Mat 22:37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 
Mat 22:38  This is the first and great commandment. 
Mat 22:39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 
Mat 22:40  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. 


Here He hammers His point home:


Joh 13:34  A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 
Joh 13:35  By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. 
Joh 15:12  This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 
Joh 15:13  Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 

Joh 15:17  These things I command you, that ye love one another. 

 What is it that gives us the right to claim He is our Father to take His name. 

Hi long time friend and sister of the faith.

You nailed what it is to be  a Christian with your references.


When I walked into the House of YHWH, in search of a relationship with the Being that was breaking my heart, over and over.  I walked off the stage a whiskey swilling, drug shooting, snorting and smoking womaniser.  Nobody needed me in their Church Family but because of a Baptist Pastor with a heart for Missionary Work received me and he and a single Deacon saw that I had arrived there filled with the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost.


I married a Deacon's Daughter whose oldest brother was one of the Deacons of that Surbanwood Baptist Church that was unsure of me.  But I had a hunger for the Word that would not be satisfied and today I pray it never is.


So, what is a Christian?  According to most of the members, if your name is on the Local Church Membership Roll, you are a Christian because you have publicly proclaimed the Christ, Yashuah, for your own.  My, nagging, question is, what does Public Proclamation entail, as per YHWH and Yashuuah?


I feel concern for those that remain unknown as Christian outside of the Church and I feel the greatest concern for the One Day A Week Worshipper.  Do they truly worship their God?  Who or what is their Supreme Being?


The Words of Yashuah, Jesus, have requirements and are they seeking to grow into a closer, never ending relationship with Him that grows forever more?


This is a very personal issue that requires External Concern and Love and ever more Personal Answers to our Maker.

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