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Devilish healing

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Q: How can you explain away the facts of healing made by magicians, witches and other characters who are definitely far from the LORD?

 

A: I call it devilish healing. Will try to explain my point.

 

For physical pain, whether suffered personally or by their loved ones, people run first to doctors, then to whosoever (Church or witches – doesn’t matter) following the devil-instituted rule “the end justifies means.” Hosea 4:6.

 

Earlier (in our book) we discussed the spiritual reasons for our physical sufferings, why we come to doctors and how GOD's Punishment works.

 

Now, let’s consider that devilish healing.

But before we proceed any further, let’s get one thing straight: Satan is the only reason why every pain, sickness, distortion & death come out in our GOD-given Life, as well as the only source of all evil ever existed.

Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezekiel 28:3-19.

 

The evil one is not omnipresent, cannot create anything, rather damages, destroys, steals.

Daniel 8:24-25; John 10:10.

 

As we have also earlier clarified, Satan has no real authority at all over whoever and whatever. Genesis 1:26-28; Psalms 115:16.

 

Yet, he still lives & operates in the spirit realm and from there kindly receives all those who buy his lies. He, the evil one, rules fallen angels (which had long ago become demons) and, by the latter, the minds of most people.

John 8:43-45; 2Corinthians 4:4.

 

So, when we turn our backs on GOD, the Guardian Angels have but to step back, demons gladly jump forward and damage our physical health. When folks don’t repent and move farther on from the LORD, running to witches and their like, some devil ruling around there commands the demon indwelling a sick person to leave the latter alone. Thus, the devil promotes trust in witchcraft and speeds up simple folks toward hell. Psalms 9:15; Isaiah 5:14.

 

That’s it. The choice is yours.

 

(Our “Christian Mind” Ministry, “Q & A” book, chapter 81)

 

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Thoughts of the martyrs come to mind. They did not have faith? 

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12 minutes ago, Igor said:

Q: How can you explain away the facts of healing made by magicians, witches and other characters who are definitely far from the LORD?

Here's a list of those devilish persons far from the Lord. The video pretty much covers a well known list. The greatest enemy are these devils because they are within our midst:

 

 

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1 hour ago, Becky said:

Thoughts of the martyrs come to mind. They did not have faith? 

Becky, sorry, I don't see a connectrion. I spoke about the lies of the devil.

The Martyrs & their Faith is another subject. John Fox wrote on that in his "Book of Martyrs" well enough.

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During the Apostolic age what was the purpose of miraculous healings? Don't mistaken my question as a denial of God healing today which I believe He does through ordinary means.

 

@Igor In case you haven't made the connection to the video I provided many of those on the list believe the office of Apostle is still open, which is one of three offices (Prophet, Christ, Apostle) that were used in the revelatory process to write Scriptures. Such offices were accompanied by miraculous signs which authenticated them during the buildup of the church. These are the questions I ask myself 1) are these offices still open? 2) Is the revelatory process still ongoing (don't mistaken with illumination)? 3) If these offices are now closed are the signs used to authenticate them real or counterfeit? 4) what would be the goal of providing counterfeit signs to authenticate an office which may be now closed?

 

God bless,

William

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1 hour ago, William said:

Here's a list of those devilish persons far from the Lord. The video pretty much covers a well known list. The greatest enemy are these devils because they are within our midst:

 

 

William, with all due respect, I cannot support your answer. I don't know about Fred Price Robert Tilton and Shai Linne, but Kenneth Copeland is one of my spiritual Teachers. I couldn't find any lie in his books. In fact, the books of Ken & Gloria Copeland are included in the references for my "Q & A" book.

P.S. Sorry, couldn't cut all your post in this quoting. Not my way to answer. Could you please cut off everything but the last sentence?

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5 minutes ago, Igor said:

William, with all due respect, I cannot support your answer. I don't know about Fred Price Robert Tilton and Shai Linne, but Kenneth Copeland is one of my spiritual Teachers. I couldn't find any lie in his books. In fact, the books of Ken & Gloria Copeland are included in the references for my "Q & A" book.

P.S. Sorry, couldn't cut all your post in this quoting. Not my way to answer. Could you please cut off everything but the last sentence?

I definitely recommend abandoning the Copelands:

 

 

The most lethal food brother Igor is one mixed with small amounts of poison.

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6 minutes ago, William said:

These are the questions I ask myself 1) are these offices still open? 2) Is the revelatory process still ongoing (don't mistaken with illumination)? 3) If these offices are now closed are the signs used to authenticate them real or counterfeit?

 

God bless,

William

As per Ephesians 4:11-13, the Offices are open. Who is Worthy and who is not for me to know. GOD knows.

As for the Healing Power of GOD, even here & now, I don't need to believe it, because I know: Yes & Amen. And that from personal experience. 

However, not first time, we get to another subject.

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9 minutes ago, William said:
10 minutes ago, Igor said:

William, with all due respect, I cannot support your answer. I don't know about Fred Price Robert Tilton and Shai Linne, but Kenneth Copeland is one of my spiritual Teachers. I couldn't find any lie in his books. In fact, the books of Ken & Gloria Copeland are included in the references for my "Q & A" book.

P.S. Sorry, couldn't cut all your post in this quoting. Not my way to answer. Could you please cut off everything but the last sentence?

Read more  

I definitely recommend abandoning the Copelands:

 

 

The most lethal food brother Igor is one mixed with small amounts of poison.

William, the question is why Sister Gloria shown above was made an Honorable Doctor of Theology? Is it true? Not?

Her books were good for me years ago.

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19 minutes ago, Igor said:

As per Ephesians 4:11-13, the Offices are open. Who is Worthy and who is not for me to know. GOD knows.

As for the Healing Power of GOD, even here & now, I don't need to believe it, because I know: Yes & Amen. And that from personal experience. 

However, not first time, we get to another subject.

Are they now? Some of those offices writ Scripture and some of those offices are to illuminate Scripture.

 

Do you believe anyone has the authority today to write Scripture? Do you believe in Apostolic Succession?

 

Lastly, should I add to Scripture whenever one of these "Apostles" speaks?

 

Should we follow the Law concerning Prophets? That is, 1) A Prophet never speaks from himself but is a mouthpiece of God. 2) Since God would never contradict Himself neither can a true Prophet contradict any prior Prophet 3) If speaking prophetically (future) if those things which are said do not come to pass then they are a false prophet.

 

I have no problem holding anyone to this standard under the penalty of death. A prophet only needed to err once to be considered a false Prophet.

 

On the subject of certain offices and the gifts which authenticate them:

 

The revelatory process has now ceased after the closing of the canon. That is, lest you suggest that Scripture is still being written? And if so by whom, and can they perform a miracle such as healing in order to authenticate their office? There is no more revelation (Prophet and Apostle) but there is only illumination (Pastor, Teacher, Evangelist, etc).

 

The apostle Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 13:8-13:

 

“Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”

 

Charismatic and continuationist theologians typically interpret the passage this way:

 

“The spiritual gifts of tongues, prophecy, and knowledge will cease when the perfect comes. The perfect is not the completed canon; it’s the coming of Christ and the future state. Therefore, according to the Bible, the revelatory gifts of tongues, prophecy, and knowledge will continue in the church until Christ returns.”

 

I think this interpretation fails, primarily because the exegesis doesn’t hold up. Here’s what I mean:

 

In 1 Cor. 13:12, Paul uses the analogy of a “mirror.” When a person looks into a mirror, he sees himself “face to face.” Paul uses this analogy to teach the believers in Corinth that when they used the revelatory spiritual gifts of tongues, prophecy, and knowledge, they were only able to “see in a mirror dimly.” That is, apart from the “perfect” (telios, i.e., completed or mature) source of revelation that was to come, the church in Corinth possessed a dim understanding of God and themselves, just like the use of a poor quality mirror makes it difficult to see one’s face clearly. The Corinthian Christians “knew in part,” in incompleteness, with lack of clarity, by use of the revelatory spiritual gifts. “But then” (later, when the completed source of revelation comes) Paul says the Corinthians would see in the mirror more clearly; i.e, “face to face,” with greater perception and clarity, just as a high quality mirror gives a person a clearer and more complete sight of his face than a poor one can.

 

In verse 13:8, Paul states that the spiritual gifts of prophecy, tongues, and knowledge — gifts which were “childish” in that they served the church in their infancy, and gifts which were “partial” in that they communicated only part of God’s will, and permitted the early Christians to understand God’s overall purpose and plan only “dimly” — Paul states that those gifts “will be done away…will cease…will be done away.” That which provides partial revelation will cease, and that which is perfect (i.e., not morally perfect, but complete) will thereafter be the source of a far clearer and more comprehensive understanding of God and His will (which by analogy would allow the Corinthians to look in the “mirror” and see a more perfect reflection of themselves, i.e., see themselves “face to face”). Therefore, the Corinthians were not to boast in childish, incomplete revelatory gifts that would soon pass away, but were instead to pursue love, which will never cease because it’s eternal.

 

Thus 1 Cor. 13:8-13 argues strongly that the gifts of tongues, prophecy, and knowledge have ended, for the church now has the mature and perfect revelation of God, the completed Bible. No other knowledge about God and our Savior is gained apart from that perfect Word. If we believe Paul’s teaching and predictions about the aforementioned gifts (that they are by nature childish, incomplete, and passing away), and we believe that the completed revelation of God is the Bible, we must conclude that the early revelatory gifts of tongues, prophecy, and knowledge have ceased. The fact that this was indeed the testimony of the early and historic church (that those gifts ceased to be part of the church’s experience very soon after the age of the apostles ended) seals the deal.

 

When Paul later wrote, “Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues” (1 Cor. 14:39), the application of the verse is mitigated by the prediction Paul had just made that the spiritual gifts of prophecy and tongues “will be done away…will cease” (1 Cor. 13:8). As long as the spiritual gifts of prophecy and tongues (and knowledge) continued to operate, they were not to be forbidden. But when the “complete” thing comes, the Corinthians understood that those gifts would discontinue, since they were by nature incomplete and childish, and superceded by what is complete and mature (the canon). This is exactly what happened in the early church — the church (indeed, the Holy Spirit) “put away” the “childish” revelatory gifts of tongues, knowledge, and prophecy in favor of the completed canon (the perfect and inspired words of the Holy Spirit), and the clear, mature, and comprehensive knowledge of God it provides.

13 minutes ago, Igor said:

William, the question is why Sister Gloria shown above was made an Honorable Doctor of Theology? Is it true? Not?

Her books were good for me years ago.

I have no idea as to why these wives of pastors are even doing at the Pulpit.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, William said:

Here's a list of those devilish persons far from the Lord. The video pretty much covers a well known list. The greatest enemy are these devils because they are within our midst:

 

 

William, could you please be more concise?

You wrote: "Charismatic and continuationist theologians..." I have no clue what's that all about. I have no time for that. I believe in One Body of Christ full stop. Hopefully, I'm not alone.

By Webster, Apostle = ...Literally: One sent forth; a messenger... For me, it's enough.

The Written Word of GOD is complete. No amendments.

What I write/wrote here, as well as in my book, is my Understanding of the Scripture.

As for debates, I'd love to finish them by a simple proposition: why not to wait, just a little? The Day will come when GOD tell every one of us His Opinion, OK?

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1 hour ago, Igor said:

William, could you please be more concise?

You wrote: "Charismatic and continuationist theologians..." I have no clue what's that all about. I have no time for that. I believe in One Body of Christ full stop. Hopefully, I'm not alone.

By Webster, Apostle = ...Literally: One sent forth; a messenger... For me, it's enough.

The Written Word of GOD is complete. No amendments.

What I write/wrote here, as well as in my book, is my Understanding of the Scripture.

As for debates, I'd love to finish them by a simple proposition: why not to wait, just a little? The Day will come when GOD tell every one of us His Opinion, OK?

I suggest you use a Theological dictionary. Here's two generalized and brief definitions from Theopedia and one from Bakers evangelical Dictionary. Much more credible and concise sources are available though.

 

https://www.theopedia.com/continuationism

https://www.theopedia.com/charismatic

https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/apostle.html

 

If you don't mind I'm going to pause and yield back for a time in this thread. I know it is not easy when so much is challenged. You have a lot of food on your plate.

 

 

Lots of food brother Igor. Lots of food.

 

God bless,

William

 

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11 hours ago, Igor said:

Q: How can you explain away the facts of healing made by magicians, witches and other characters who are definitely far from the LORD?

 

A: I call it devilish healing. Will try to explain my point.

 

For physical pain, whether suffered personally or by their loved ones, people run first to doctors, then to whosoever (Church or witches – doesn’t matter) following the devil-instituted rule “the end justifies means.” Hosea 4:6.

 

Earlier (in our book) we discussed the spiritual reasons for our physical sufferings, why we come to doctors and how GOD's Punishment works.

 

Now, let’s consider that devilish healing.

But before we proceed any further, let’s get one thing straight: Satan is the only reason why every pain, sickness, distortion & death come out in our GOD-given Life, as well as the only source of all evil ever existed.

Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezekiel 28:3-19.

 

The evil one is not omnipresent, cannot create anything, rather damages, destroys, steals.

Daniel 8:24-25; John 10:10.

 

As we have also earlier clarified, Satan has no real authority at all over whoever and whatever. Genesis 1:26-28; Psalms 115:16.

 

Yet, he still lives & operates in the spirit realm and from there kindly receives all those who buy his lies. He, the evil one, rules fallen angels (which had long ago become demons) and, by the latter, the minds of most people.

John 8:43-45; 2Corinthians 4:4.

 

So, when we turn our backs on GOD, the Guardian Angels have but to step back, demons gladly jump forward and damage our physical health. When folks don’t repent and move farther on from the LORD, running to witches and their like, some devil ruling around there commands the demon indwelling a sick person to leave the latter alone. Thus, the devil promotes trust in witchcraft and speeds up simple folks toward hell. Psalms 9:15; Isaiah 5:14.

 

That’s it. The choice is yours.

 

(Our “Christian Mind” Ministry, “Q & A” book, chapter 81)

 

Actually it's a group of lost reprobates that have gathered unto themselves a well trained group of actors and actresses that put on a circus performance that Barnum and Baily would envy. How a person who is fifty thousand dollars in debt and ready to lose everything they have can suddenly open their back doors and find fifty thousand dollars in cold cash laying there is amazing. An elderly Christian friend once told me that it is people like Mike Murdock and Peter Popoff that are going to suffer the worst of Hell when their time comes . No genuine believer or even a nominal believer can believe this nonsense.      M

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9 hours ago, William said:

I suggest you use a Theological dictionary. Here's two generalized and brief definitions from Theopedia and one from Bakers evangelical Dictionary. Much more credible and concise sources are available though.

 

https://www.theopedia.com/continuationism

https://www.theopedia.com/charismatic

https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/apostle.html

 

If you don't mind I'm going to pause and yield back for a time in this thread. I know it is not easy when so much is challenged. You have a lot of food on your plate.

 

 

Lots of food brother Igor. Lots of food.

 

God bless,

William

 

It's not only the greed they have ,its the pride and arrogance they display while showing their deceived congregations all of the "blessings" God gave them. And how amazing it is when not a single contributor  ever questions them as to where all this money is going.  It makes it difficult for well meaning people who want to give but aren't sure that the charity they are giving to is actually legitimate .  Matt  

Edited by Matthew A.Duvall
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10 hours ago, William said:

Lots of food brother Igor. Lots of food.

 

I watched the video. And listened. So what? They speak about their conversations with GOD. Is it impossible? When I communicate with folks, touch the subject of my Faith and GOD is silent, it's a sure Sign for me to shut up. When it's a Christian Communion, He just reminds me of the right Scriptures to mention or quote.

They speak about their own aircrafts. So what? Their Ministries got money from Tithes & Offerings. Imagine the Tithes of all Christians in the US. Where all that stuff is supposed to go. Stay in pockets?

 

If we were following Tithe Principles to-day, we would be able to release 

about one-tenth of all Believing families into some type of full-time Ministry.
(Morris Cerullo, Giving And Receiving, p.45)

 

Misuse of Church money is another story. And our Responsibility.

 

The fact that you are giving money to a Charity does not mean that you
need not try to find out whether that Charity is a fraud or not.
(C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity, p.77)

 

Is money our only problem? IMHO, denominationalism is much more serious.

 

GOD bless you.

Igor

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58 minutes ago, Matthew A.Duvall said:

An elderly Christian friend once told me that it is people like Mike Murdock and Peter Popoff that are going to suffer the worst of Hell when their time comes . No genuine believer or even a nominal believer can believe this nonsense.      M

Shalom,

Better to write "hell" and "Believer." Just a guess. 🙂 

As for criticism, it's better to avoid that evil. Romans 2:1. The Scripture is for all of us.

We criticize millionaires. What would we do with, say, a million USD? Surely, we send all that stuff to Church & Charity! 🙂 

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1 hour ago, Igor said:

I watched the video. And listened. So what? They speak about their conversations with GOD. Is it impossible? When I communicate with folks, touch the subject of my Faith and GOD is silent, it's a sure Sign for me to shut up. When it's a Christian Communion, He just reminds me of the right Scriptures to mention or quote.

They speak about their own aircrafts. So what? Their Ministries got money from Tithes & Offerings. Imagine the Tithes of all Christians in the US. Where all that stuff is supposed to go. Stay in pockets?

 

If we were following Tithe Principles to-day, we would be able to release 

about one-tenth of all Believing families into some type of full-time Ministry.
(Morris Cerullo, Giving And Receiving, p.45)

 

Misuse of Church money is another story. And our Responsibility.

 

The fact that you are giving money to a Charity does not mean that you
need not try to find out whether that Charity is a fraud or not.
(C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity, p.77)

 

Is money our only problem? IMHO, denominationalism is much more serious.

 

GOD bless you.

Igor

Can't believe you're actually going to dig your heels in and defend that heretic.

 

Here's something to consider about discernment. Discernment isn't only knowing what is right from wrong but what is right from almost right.

 

You're are also quoting C.S. Lewis on charity. Are tithes and offerings considered charity?

 

God bless,

William

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3 hours ago, William said:

 

Can't believe you're actually going to dig your heels in and defend that heretic.

- Better explain me where you see/hear heresy in Brother Copeland.

 

When I made my first steps on the Christian Road, I qickly got tired of what I heard from Baptists, Pentecostal, Charismatics, Adventists, and other denominationalists cursing one another.

 

Discernment isn't only knowing what is right from wrong but what is right from almost right.

- Agree. But we all are "almost right." 1Corinthians 13:9.

 

Are tithes and offerings considered charity?

- The same origin - Love. Tithes & Offerings are moved by Love. Charity means Love by KJV(1611). And I understand Charity as Love in action

 

GOD bless.

Igor

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6 hours ago, Igor said:

Can't believe you're actually going to dig your heels in and defend that heretic.

- Better explain me where you see/hear heresy in Brother Copeland.

Charismania, Prosperity Gospel, and Word of Faith would be a great place to acknowledge heresy. Question is why are you defensive of the Copeland's false teaching? What is it that is so valuable in their false teaching to you?

 

6 hours ago, Igor said:

Are tithes and offerings considered charity?

- The same origin - Love. Tithes & Offerings are moved by Love. Charity means Love by KJV(1611). And I understand Charity as Love in action

This is the kinda distortion that needs be addressed.

 

Tithes are required by the Law. In the OT there were several tithes which ceased when Jesus went to the cross. If the tithe is still in effect then the NT church needs to pay at least three tithes towards: 1) Levites and Priests, 2) the feast of Tabernacles, 3) every third year for the relief of the poor.

 

Deuteronomy 12:19 Take care that you do not neglect the Levite as long as you live in your land.

 

There is no tithe outside the Promised Land. And there is nothing in the OT/NT about tithing on wages or investments outside of the Promised Land.

 

The people some of which are poor which Copeland fleeces are not to pay "tithes". Even the very offerings paid to Levites have ceased, they can no longer receive tithes because their line is no more, therefore, they do not tithe to the Aaronic priesthood. If the reasons for the tithe are no longer in effect then why are the principles of the tithe being reinstituted on behalf of the Copelands?

 

We do not pay tithes to the priesthood of the Levites and them to the Aaronic Priesthood.

 

When Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist the Aaronic priesthood handed the "baton" over to the priest of Melchizedek. Even the tithe required to Melchizedek was paid in full at the cross.

 

Matthew 3:13-15, "Then Jesus arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him. 14 But John tried to prevent Him, saying, 'I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?' But Jesus answering said to him, 'Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.' Then he permitted Him."  

 

All the requirements of Law were fulfilled on our behalf on the cross:

 

John 19:30 When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

 

“When Jesus cried, ‘It is finished!’ He was not speaking of the plan of redemption. There were still three days and nights to go through before He went to the throne…Jesus’ death on the cross was only the beginning of the complete work of redemption.” (Kenneth Copeland, Jesus—Our Lord of Glory, Believer’s Voice of Victory 10, 4 (April 1982):3.

 

Kenneth Copeland

 

... . for Christ contrasts his death with the ancient sacrifices and with all the figures; as if he had said,” Of all that was practiced under the Law, there was nothing that had any power in itself to make atonement for sins, to appease the wrath of God, and to obtain justification; but now the true salvation is exhibited and manifested to the world.” On this doctrine depends the abolition of all the ceremonies of the Law; for it would be absurd to follow shadows, since we have the body in Christ.


If we give our assent to this word which Christ pronounced, we ought to be satisfied with his death alone for salvation, and we are not at liberty to apply for assistance in any other quarter; for he who was sent by the Heavenly Father to obtain for us a full acquittal, and to accomplish our redemption, knew well what belonged to his office, and did not fail in what he knew to be demanded of him. It was chiefly for the purpose of giving peace and tranquillity to our consciences that he pronounced this word, It is finished. Let us stop here, therefore, if we do not choose to be deprived of the salvation which he has procured for us.

 

John Calvin

 

In Mark 14:41-44 the widow under the Law did not give a tithe but she made an offering which ought not be mandated by the Church.

 

Beyond direct legislation a number of institutions contained special provisions for the poor. Gleaning laws focused on the widow, fatherless, stranger, and poor (Lev 19:9-10; 23:22; Deut 24:19-22). During the Sabbatical year debts were to be canceled (Deut 15:1-9) and Jubilee provided release for Hebrews who had become servants through poverty (Lev 25:39-41; 25:54). During these festivals the poor could eat freely of the produce of all of the fields (Exodus 23:11; Lev 25:6-7; Lev 25:12).

 

Further stipulations to aid the poor included the right of redemption from slavery by a blood relative (Lev 25:47-49), support from the third-year tithe (Deut 14:28-29), and special provisions regarding the guilt offerings. This latter law illustrates the relative nature of the concept of poverty. If someone cannot afford the normal atonement lamb he or she can bring two pigeons (Lev 5:7) but further consideration, (substituting one-tenth ephah of flour), is made for one who cannot afford even two pigeons (Lev 5:11). Clearly, the Law emphasized that poverty was no reason for exclusion from atonement and worship. Reference: https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/poor-and-poverty-theology-of.html

 

Furthermore, the OT limited the amount of tithes and to suggest that tithes are motivated by love is a serious distortion in an attempt to acquire more by Law. Again, the Levitical line has ceased the very recipients of the tithe:

 

Numbers 18:21-26

21 “To the Levites I have given every tithe in Israel for an inheritance, in return for their service that they do, their service in the tent of meeting, 22 so that the people of Israel do not come near the tent of meeting, lest they bear sin and die. 23 But the Levites shall do the service of the tent of meeting, and they shall bear their iniquity. It shall be a perpetual statute throughout your generations, and among the people of Israel they shall have no inheritance. 24 For the tithe of the people of Israel, which they present as a contribution to the Lord, I have given to the Levites for an inheritance. Therefore I have said of them that they shall have no inheritance among the people of Israel.”

 

25 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 26 “Moreover, you shall speak and say to the Levites, ‘When you take from the people of Israel the tithe that I have given you from them for your inheritance, then you shall present a contribution from it to the Lord, a tithe of the tithe.

 

NT giving is not tithing. The tithe is not charity. Do you really think giving to a multi millionaire or billionaire which not only compels people through the Law by blurring the line of charity while enticing them with a financial motivational increase is actual charity?

 

Shame, really that people give to such ministries. Please do not mistaken your support towards a heretical ministry as a biblical tithe, offering, or charity. It is nothing more than your support for the Copelands which are behind one of the greatest destructive ministries in the name of Christianity against the actual Christian faith.

 

God bless,

William

 

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12 hours ago, Igor said:

Is money our only problem? IMHO, denominationalism is much more serious.

1 Corinthians 11:19 for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.
 

Let's address this and share our understanding of how Cor 11:19 applies to the catholic church (universal) today.

 

God bless,

William

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20 minutes ago, William said:

 

...why are you defensive of the Copeland's false teaching? What is it that is so valuable in their false teaching to you?

 

I repeat I cannot find any falsehood in Ken's books. Same for Gloria.

 

Tithes are required by the Law.

 

Agree. And the Law is GOD's.

 

In the OT there were several tithes which ceased when Jesus went to the cross.

 

Disagree. The Tithe is one. The Cross of Christ has nothing to do with that.

 

There is no tithe outside the Promised Land.

 

Disagree. In such a case the Bible is also for Jews. 

 

All the requirements of Law were fulfilled on our behalf on the cross...

 

Desagree. No Law can be fulfilled (meaning done today and forgotten tomorrow.)

The Substitutional Sacrifice of Christ stopped Animal Sacrifices.

All Principles of the Law remain. 

 

Kenneth Copeland, Jesus—Our Lord of Glory

 

Didn't read. He could be mistaken. But not more than any Christian.

John Calvin is also my Teacher. Kindly note, there are many who criticize him too.

 

...to suggest that tithes are motivated by love is a serious distortion...

 

Again, Origin is the same. GOD is Love. His Law is of Love. The Tithes are of Love.

 

NT giving is not tithing.

 

Of course. "They left all and followed Him." The First Church Principles of Giving (described in Acts cc 2 & 4) is also a Great Example for us to follow.

 

...giving to a multi millionaire or billionaire... Shame, really that people give to such ministries... a heretical ministry... Copelands which are behind one of the greatest destructive ministries in the name of Christianity against the actual Christian faith.

 

Disagree. It is criticism & denominationalism on your part, William. I cannot support both. Mind well Romans 2:1.

Believe it or not, I know how GOD can "catch a tongue."

And I also know how does He answer our Giving.

Again, let wait for His Judgement.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Igor said:

I repeat I cannot find any falsehood in Ken's books. Same for Gloria.

I can understand this and I acknowledge that this is where you're at currently in your theological discernment.

 

I hope you become a regular here and participate in other threads that pertain to various biblical subjects.

 

However, I am conveying to you that most here have a serious issue with the Copelands and not only them but teachers of the Prosperity Gospel and Word of Faith. Let me be blunt, that heretical teaching is not welcome here.

 

Lemme encourage you as a brother in Christ to cleave to the word of God. I pray that you loose the false narrative which alters perception around the word of God. Sometimes I wonder if there is a supernatural cause behind a delusional follower of heretical teaching.

 

I repeat, you're welcome here. But I hope you seek deeper orthodoxy.

 

God bless,

William

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10 minutes ago, William said:

there must be factions

KJV:  ...there must be also heresies among you...

 

Of course, must. Otherwise, what the evil one is for? But not desirable

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Just now, Igor said:

KJV:  ...there must be also heresies among you...

 

Of course, must. Otherwise, what the evil one is for? But not desirable

Some context,

 

1Co 11:18  For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part,
1Co 11:19  for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.

 

KJV

1Co 11:18  For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
1Co 11:19  For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

 

I'd like to ask you how this pertains to the catholic church and some alleged 40,000+ denominations.

 

Further questions for our study. What is the difference between a Christian denomination, sect, and cult?

 

Note as a point of interest. Did you know all 40,000+ denominations break down into only a handful of theological schools of thought pertaining to Soteriology?

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4 minutes ago, William said:

...heretical teaching is not welcome here...

...loose the false narrative... 

...a supernatural cause behind a delusional follower of heretical teaching...

Welcome to other congregations to hear the same words.

So much resemblance with the Book of Martyrs. 

Whatever.

William, one question. Why, after 2 years of leaving, I still can find these posts on the Internet: "Igor Evgen - Worthy Christian Forums" and "Igor Evgen - Christ Forums"??

(Praise GOD it's just a pen name!)

So, if it's not a big problem, can you remove it?

For I better check out here.

GOD bless you.

Igor Evgen

 

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