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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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JT812

Series of Questions by an Atheist

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Simply, how do Christians (particularly fundamentalists) come to terms with the existence of dinosaur bones. There very existence disproves the bible. Or at least as far as literal interpretation goes.

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If God is all powerful and is responsible for natural disasters for example or at least responsible for allowing them to run their course then he is evil. Otherwise he is powerless to stop the death and suffering on Earth but presumably wants to.

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Stop spreading lies and look at the evidence. We live in the 21st century. All the evidence to disprove God and the bible is available to you. Go to any museum and you can look at fossils or at least exact replicas. If that's not possible for you then just do some research on your phone. Stop teaching superstitions with no basis in fact whatsoever. Think for yourself long enough to find the truth.

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What prophecies have come true if any?

 

Im talking smoking gun evidence not personal interpretations.

 

To me, the most compelling evidence of genuine foreknowledge is how the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3 reveal the condition of the church in seven different periods in the history of the world.

 

Permit me to illustrate.

 

According to many Bible prophecy teachers, Pergamum, Thyatira, and Sardis are connected.

  • Pergamum introduces the beginning of apostasy.
  • Thyatira practices full-scale apostasy.
  • Sardis is a church that suffers from spiritual death.

Note how this is a natural, descending sequence. Could it be that we're looking at snapshots of the history of the Christian church along a prophetic timeline? Confessing Millerite Adventists answer in the affirmative.

 

(It's interesting how the thread that I was replying to disappeared and that my post appeared here).

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Simply, how do Christians (particularly fundamentalists) come to terms with the existence of dinosaur bones. There very existence disproves the bible. Or at least as far as literal interpretation goes.

 

As a Christian, I agree that the silence in Genesis about dinosaurs is a little disturbing to some degree. Nevertheless, I don't consider it as a refutation of the Bible. It's only an argument proving the limitations of oral traditions and that divine inspiration isn't what we think it is.

 

In defense of Genesis, note that it is widely recognized that the book of Genesis contains two distinct creation accounts.

 

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If God is all powerful and is responsible for natural disasters for example or at least responsible for allowing them to run their course then he is evil. Otherwise he is powerless to stop the death and suffering on Earth but presumably wants to.

 

There is no need to jump to conclusions. Why insist on a losing scenario? Consider all the possible scenarios where God is good and infinitely powerful. Here is one possibility:

 

The Great Controversy Theme

 

God created Lucifer absolutely perfect and holy with a free will. God doesn't control free will. Suppose that God sees the end from the beginning and that most certainly God knew that Lucifer would eventually seek to rebel against Him. That was not an insurmountable problem, although Lucifer, who was created with fantastic intellect, thought that he could force God to yield to his demands. As the story goes, Lucifer was very successful in deceiving one third of the heavenly angels to take his side in his rebellion against God. Then Lucifer brought his spirit of rebellion to this newly created world. Using trickery and deceit, Lucifer successfully tempted Adam and Eve to think that God was withholding the advantages that would accrue to them if they ate forbidden fruit.

 

Think about this for a minute. What is a righteous God supposed to do with the sinful progeny of beings who chose to sin? I say, try to save as many as possible. If the power of Satan is so great that many must be lost so that a few may be saved then let us accept what must be with humility and faith.

 

God could have easily sterilized Adam and Eve, to prevent their explosive contagion from becoming epidemic. But God had a bigger problem. How could He eradicate sin permanently and restore perfect peace in His universe?

 

What was the only merciful and just answer to God’s predicament?

 

If God had annihilated Adam and Eve for the sin of eating forbidden fruit (i.e., a very small sin) then doubts about God’s goodness would have plagued the universe. There would be at least a few loyal angels that would tend to worship and serve God from fear and not love. But then again, if God pardoned Adam and Eve’s sin, it would mean that the violation of His law was no evil, seeing that sin could easily be passed over. If sin could be forgiven easily, what would prevent sin from becoming immortalized and perpetuated with boldness and without restraint? If God provided an incremental atonement for the sins of His creatures, how could sin be perceived correctly in all its hideous deformity and be accurately viewed for what it is? Why would sin ever end? Consequently, any initial sin, however small, would require opening the floodgates of evil and accomplishing one colossal atonement.

 

God has been maligned. His testimony and character has been questioned, His sovereignty, challenged. Can you even fathom the subtle arguments that the most brilliant of all created beings introduced in the heavenly courts to undermine God’s trustworthiness and authority? God has allowed a heart-rending cascade of evil to flourish as a demonstration to the whole universe of the horrible consequences of sin. God has been vindicated. The penalty of disobedience is being perceived to be just and fair. The end of all things is surely near.

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All the evidence to disprove God and the bible is available to you. Go to any museum and you can look at fossils or at least exact replicas.
How do fossils disprove God?

 

 

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All the evidence to disprove God and the bible is available to you. Go to any museum and you can look at fossils or at least exact replicas.
Fossils are expected from the Genesis account of Noah's flood. Even more relevant is the fact that the fossil record overwhelmingly confirms many distinct layers of unchanged fossils, not evolution.

 

 

 

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The dinosaurs lived during the time of Job. The behemoth was a dinosaur. The leviathan was a sea serpent, and recently, some scientists are discovering the probable existence of them today. The world view is constantly changing its view, especially in dating fossils. The Bible does not, nor will not change. It is true, all of it, and running to the world view for answers only brings lies. Try the Christian view to do more complete research from people like Ken Ham, and the Institute for Creation Science and more. Mostly, the depravity of man, not God as for man's sinful demise, which God in His longsuffering puts up with till the day of His vengeance against the ungodly. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. We are saved by grace through faith and that not of ourselves; it is a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy and on whom He will, He hardens. His ways are beyond our finding out. His ways are not our ways. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. - Various quotes.

 

​In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made. In Him was the life and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. -John 1:1-5

 

JT, if you truly are interested in Jesus, you already know what the world says, and the prince of this world is Satan, the father of lies. Now find out what God says and you will get the truth, from His word.

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It's only an argument proving the limitations of oral traditions and that divine inspiration isn't what we think it is.

 

What oral tradition? The Five Books of Moses were revealed from God to Moses. Moses was both educated and literate - writing down what God had revealed. Please elaborate on what oral tradition you refer, and also what divine inspiration means to you.

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As a Christian, I must passionately protest you parroting this popular perversion of truth.

 

 

If Dinosaurs existed and walked the earth at the same time as man then Job would be our best bet. Job was written before the first chronological books (Genesis through Deuteronomy) which were authored by Moses. Job is considered the oldest book in the Bible.

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What oral tradition? The Five Books of Moses were revealed from God to Moses. Moses was both educated and literate - writing down what God had revealed. Please elaborate on what oral tradition you refer, and also what divine inspiration means to you.

 

Do you really believe that the survivors of a global catastrophic flood had no amazing end of the world story to share with their progeny that was worth repeating from generation to generation? I do believe that Moses received revelations from God but I’m not aware of any Scripture that proves that Moses wrote out the Five Books of Moses directly as a word for word dictation from God. I see no reason to believe that Moses wrote about the events surrounding his death.

 

My understanding of divine inspiration comes from having inspired dreams and visions. God has never directed me to write a word-for-word dictation. As a New Testament Christian I accept Paul’s test of supernatural revelation.

 

1 Thessalonians 5

19 Do not quench the Spirit; 20 do not despise prophetic utterances. 21 But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.

 

As stated, my understanding of divine inspiration comes from personal experience but it satisfies Paul’s test. I confess to having had a stunning vision of a coin used in Laodicea after seeing a coin that represented the god of the Amazons in Ephesus. All this pertained to my research on Revelation chapter 2 and 3.

 

Years later I was terribly disappointed when I discovered what the actual coin of Laodicea looked like. The details expressed in my beautiful vision were wrong. I was only right on the general idea.

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Job was written before the first chronological books (Genesis through Deuteronomy) which were authored by Moses. Job is considered the oldest book in the Bible.

True but the book of Job doesn't say that Job once saw a dinosaur. All we know for sure is what the fossil record compels us to believe and that Job expected that there were sea and land monsters living in his day.

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Go back and read the account in Job where God tells him to behold behemoth, and read God's description of it. Without any coaching, the description popped into my head that of a dinosaur as I read the Scriptures. Old Earth theory is full of holes compared to the direct revelation from God which explains creation, thus its age. God spoke everything into existence from an earth-centered perspective as the universe would be seen from earth. It is good to do 1 Thessalonians 5:19-21, but be ready for correction also. Do not assume when this is quoted it is only meant for the other guy and not for one's self as well.

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"He eats plants... He bends his tail like a cedar..." Only a dinosaur matches Job's description. There are other verses that may also refer to dinosaurs. But, even if the Bible said nothing about dinosaurs, a lack of evidence usually isn't evidence.

 

If Evolution were true, there would be innumerable transitional fossil forms. The Evolutionists would be demanding of Creationists to show fixity of the fossils. But, as it is, Evolutionists invoke their wild imaginations to come up with a relative handful of problematic transitional fossil forms. But, Creationists can point to trillions of fossils that show fixity. If Evolutionists weren't so arrogant, they'd see how stupid they're being in insisting the fossils support Evolution. Then Evolutionists double down on being stupid in trying to explain the lack of transitional fossil forms...

 

JT812, I can't be an Atheist.

 

God is the author of suffering (Isaiah 45:7). God cursed this world in response to man's sin. It's for God's purpose. He's not powerless to stop it, he's powerful to allow it. And, yes, God has a plan and this is part of his plan, and end the end, there will be no more death and suffering. Denying there is a divine purpose to this life will only make your suffering worse, and that I won't blame on God.

 

Jesus prophesied the destruction of the Temple within the lives of some his contemporaries (Matthew 24:34), and prophesied that not one stone of the Temple would be left on another (Matthew 24:2), and at the same time Judea would be destroyed (Matthew 24:16). Daniel, centuries earlier, prophesied the coming of Christ followed by the destruction the temple, according to a timetable than ended in the first century (Daniel 9:26). This happened in 70 AD, just as prophesied. There's your smoking gun.

 

 

 

 

 

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Do you really believe that the survivors of a global catastrophic flood had no amazing end of the world story to share with their progeny that was worth repeating from generation to generation?

 

How can there be survivors of a global catastrophic flood?

 

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All we know for sure is what the fossil record compels us to believe and that Job expected that there were sea and land monsters living in his day.

 

You mean that you are compelled to believe the narration of stick figures (fossils) by unbelievers rather than Scripture?

 

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Do you really believe that the survivors of a global catastrophic flood had no amazing end of the world story to share with their progeny that was worth repeating from generation to generation?

 

"Flood stories are common across a wide range of cultures, extending back into prehistory. Below is a list of some flood stories from around the world and is in no way exhaustive..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths

 

I think the universality of flood stories proves that Noah's Flood is an historical fact. But, Moses talked directly with God and so would have been able to write down the correct details, rather than that other flood stories that had been corrupted by oral retelling.

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My understanding of divine inspiration comes from having inspired dreams and visions. God has never directed me to write a word-for-word dictation.

 

And He won't. The Canon is closed. Hebrews 1:1 says that through Prophets God spoke in "various ways" which included dreams and visions. Hebrews 1:2 says, "but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world."

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How can there be survivors of a global catastrophic flood?

Noah and his wife plus their three sons and their sons' wives -- eight in all -- escaped in a wonderfully manufactured craft that was designed by an extraterrestrial.

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I think the universality of flood stories proves that Noah's Flood is an historical fact.

 

I believe there could be a thread of truth running across other religions or cultures - after the tower of Babel though.... it becomes a mess.

 

God bless,

William

 

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Hebrews 1:1 says that through Prophets God spoke in "various ways" which included dreams and visions. Hebrews 1:2 says, "but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world."
Do you interpret that to mean that God didn't give the Apostle Paul visions as he claimed?

 

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