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Butterfly8

Do Homosexuals go to Hell?

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Recently, a Christian footballer declared in his facebook account, that all homosexuals will go to Hell.

For the sake of understanding the Bible, I give a case study of homosexuals who believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and that Jesus died for our sins and are trying to repent but occasionally practice homosexuality but quickly repent their ways - the cycle of going straight for some time and going back to their homosexual ways for a day or two. They go to Church & pray often to change theirs ways but are finding it very hard.
Question: In the above case , will "Christian" homosexuals go to hell? Please support your arguments with Bible Scripture verses.

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All homosexuals deserve to go to Hell.  So do all heterosexuals.  All of us, regardless of our sexual orientation, are sinners who have fallen short of God's requirement and deserve eternal punishment. 

 

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 says, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 

 

This tells us two things about homosexuality.  It is a sin which will keep those who practice it from entering the kingdom of God but it can be forgiven just as any other sin can.  We tend to treat it differently from others sins because we live in a society which generally doesn't consider it a sin but a normal expression of human sexuality.

 

Perhaps you can find the answers to your question by reading the words of someone who was once a practicing homosexual but who is now a Christian.  I recommend that you check this site:   

 

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Hi Butterfly,

 

The case you highlight is in my eyes a really sad one. Have a look at the news report for the full context and detail 

 

NEWS.SKY.COM

Australian fullback Israel Folau will miss the Rugby World Cup after his homophobic comments on Instagram and Twitter.

 

Israel had in front of him a glittering career as one of the world's top emerging rugby players, and he threw it away for a 'Christian rant' that I believe was totally unscriptural and even Satan inspired, very similar to the hate rants that we have come to associate with Muslim clerics that then go on to justifying Jihad against infidels. I'm saddened when Christian bothers and sisters misrepresent my God in this way, which is why I maintain that rants like this are Satan inspired. He is cunning and will readily use misquoted and out of context Bible passages to give a bad spin on God's love, grace and holiness. What message to gays and those caught up and feeling trapped in an inescapable cycle of degenerate sin, like drugs, alcohol abuse, severe depression and the like does this give? To me it says, you are not welcome in God's family, the Church, and BTW Jesus hates you!

 

This is so wrong on so many levels. The message of Jesus is to reach out to the world and draw them in, Matthew 28 v 16:20. Israel's rant to me is every bit as Phariseeical as the the Pharisee in Luke 18 v 9:14. Hate, division, prejudice and smugness is food and water to Satan, he loves it. Israel's message is unscriptural in the context of the New Testament period of grace. In the Old Testament period of law, the Children, and only the Children of Israel, were expected to follow God's law both in letter and spirit from conception to death, any slip-ups were to have a 'sticking plaster' applied in the form of trespass offerings but that sticking plaster was pretty ineffective. God then sent His son to show us how we can live here on Earth, fully compliant with God's law, which would inevitably put Him at odds with establishment, ending in His murder and death. However being God, death could barely hold onto Him for 3 days before Jesus rose victorious and death defeated. Now sin was no longer able to condemn, only disbelief and failure to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

 

Sin is no longer critical, so does that give us free reign? Well sort of ... I Corinthians 10 v 23 but inadvisable. If you truly love God you'll desperately want to immerse yourself in His love and pleasure. Any Christian who wantonly and repeatedly sins against God risks having to account at judgement, but even such can be forgiven and rehabilitated Luke 15 v 11:32. 

 

But what about all the passages in the epistles that condemn immorality and sin? These are written to Churches and believers, not unbelieving sinners. To tell a sinner to curb his sins, try and be good and live a nice moral life in accordance with the 10 commandments is worse than a waste of breath, it's counter-productive, puts people off and reinforces Christian stereotypes of holier than thou. Besides to the sinner, sin is fun and feels good. Why should he or she give it up? Why would a gay give a damn if I told him his lifestyle is unchristian any more than telling a girl that her skirt is unislamic? Instead a better outcome is more likely if you introduce the sinner to God's love and grace and once they are His disciple explain about God's will and how they might change to live within His will and seek His pleasure. To tell an unbeliever to stop sinning is to sweep their house clean and dry with a disastrous outcome Matthew 12 v 38:45.

 

So to Israel I say read 1 Corinthians 13, look again at your tweet and tell me, where is the love?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, andyindauk said:

So to Israel I say read 1 Corinthians 13, look again at your tweet and tell me, where is the love?

When you see someone doing something that will harm him, love requires that you warn him.  Anyone who practices sin is in danger of eternal punishment in Hell.  If a person loves his sin he will resent being told that it is wrong and to him a warning will sound like hate speech.  Christians are commanded to proclaim the good news that Jesus died for their sins but before we do this we must show people that they are sinners.  Someone who doesn't think he is a sinner won't be interested in learning how his sins can be forgiven.

CLYDEHERRIN.WORDPRESS.COM

Two brothers named Bob and Bill decided to get medical examinations.  Neither was aware of any health problems; they simply wanted to make...

 

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On 7/15/2019 at 4:38 AM, Butterfly8 said:

Recently, a Christian footballer declared in his facebook account, that all homosexuals will go to Hell.

For the sake of understanding the Bible, I give a case study of homosexuals who believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and that Jesus died for our sins and are trying to repent but occasionally practice homosexuality but quickly repent their ways - the cycle of going straight for some time and going back to their homosexual ways for a day or two. They go to Church & pray often to change theirs ways but are finding it very hard.
Question: In the above case , will "Christian" homosexuals go to hell? Please support your arguments with Bible Scripture verses.

Well, there's no such thing as a sexually active "Christian" homosexual. 
The bible says homosexuality is an abomination worthy of death. That's old testament. 

New testament says, the sexually immoral will not see the kingdom of Heaven. 1 Corinthians 6:9

That would include straights and homosexuals. Those who aren't saved , as we know. 

So to answer the question, yes. 

 

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Posted (edited)

Theophilus  already provided the Scripture.  To place it into perspective, all unforgiven sin will keep you out of Heaven and homosexuality is a sin just like fornication (heterosexual intercourse outside of marriage), no better and no worse.  Being a homosexual is like being a thief or a liar.  The sin is not in the urges, the sin is in giving in to those urges.

 

The bible presents only one way to forgiveness for everyone and anyone:

  • [Romans 10:9-11 NLT] 9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced."

 

The bible presents two lifestyles for people to follow:

  • [Galatians 5:19-21 NLT] 19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, 21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
  • [Galatians 5:22-23 NLT] 22 But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!

 

Homosexuality is not a new sin, nor is it different than a man who cheats on his wife or a man who struggles with alcoholism.  Those who follow their “sinful nature”, reject God and his offer.  Those who accept God and His offer gain an inner helper (the Holy Spirit) that makes the fruit grow in your life.

 

That is just how it is for everyone.  No one is past saving and no sin gets a free ride.

Edited by atpollard
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This is very dangerous territory. Are we saying that Christians are saved by works like good behaviour? I'll readily confess to you and to God that since I became a Christian I have sinned, frequently. I pray often that God will help me identify and help me address my sinful nature and make me holier and more like Him by the working of the Holy Spirit in me; and even so, I still slip up - frequently!

 

This line of debate is fraught with dangers. By homing in and focusing on one particular sin, we're inadvertently suggesting that there's different levels of seriousness of sin, similar to American law in which they have misdemeanours and felonies. We're suggesting God can tolerate irritation with a Christian brother who divorces and remarries Matthew 5 v 31:33 but anyone who lusts after someone of the same gender (remember that desire is the same as the act itself) Matthew 5 v 27:29 has just purchased a one-way ticket to Hell. 

 

God's message to the gay Christian, I say refer to the Apostle Paul's challenge in 1 Corinthians 7 v 1, better not to marry. Verse 2 goes on to say that if you must then OK find a wife to avoid sinful lusts eating you up. We can deduce from Paul's writings elsewhere, that that doesn't extend to gay marriage, so to him or her Paul's advice in verse 1 should be taken as a demand and indeed there are many fine examples of gay Christians living a celibate life. I say hats off to them, it's easy for straight, happily married Christians to tut tut and say well God gave us His son, so it's not asking too much for you to sacrifice your sexuality. I appreciate that that is a massive big deal and sacrifice, and I am sure that God really appreciates it and will give these brothers and sisters a special reward at the judgement seat.

 

Going back to the original question, the practising Christian gay is in rebellion and disobedience to God's will and instruction. Is that serious? Read 1 Samuel 15 v 23.Is it possible for a Christian to renounce his / her faith and lose their place in Heaven? Two schools of thought and I'm veering towards the one that says yes it is. Continued rebellion risks your salvation; it's really not worth it. If you love God truly you want to imitate Him and seek His pleasure rather than His angst. Repent now, the father is waiting for you, desperately willing you to return back to His love and care for you Luke 15 v 11:32.

 

The paragraphs above apply only to the gay Christian brother or sister. A celibate non-believing gay is as far from the Kingdom of Heaven as the practising one. He or she needs to accept God's rescue of ALL of their sins by accepting Jesus and acknowledging His death and resurrection. So I reiterate that Israel Folau's homophobic rants are unscriptural and counterproductive to the message of God which is one of love, reaching out, forgiveness and reconciliation. 

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On 7/19/2019 at 2:35 AM, andyindauk said:

Are we saying that Christians are saved by works like good behaviour?

No, we believe that salvation is by God's grace without any kind of work.  But when a person is saved he is regenerated and receives a new nature that wants to please God.  This new nature will express itself in his actions and will bring about a change in his behavior.  Good works do not save us but they are the evidence that we are saved.

 

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

James 2:18 ESV

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Posted (edited)

Just for the record, here is the “homophobic hate speech” that got Israel fired from Rugby and according to one comment here reflects badly on Christianity ...

 

In the 10 April post the 30-year-old fullback, a staunch Christian, wrote "hell awaits" for "drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists, idolaters".

 

  • [Galatians 5:19-21 NASB] 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

  • [1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NASB] 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor [the] covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

 

So stating what God has warned us is “hate speech”.

 

I have few views in eschatology, but I find this a teachable moment for one of my very few opinions on scripture in Revelation:

 

  • [Revelation 13:16-18 NASB] 16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 and [he provides] that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, [either] the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

 

  • [Revelation 14:9-10 NASB] 9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

 

Many people speculate that the Mark of the Beast is a tattoo or a microchip.  I see it as something far simpler and more insidious.  I believe that the mark of the beast is the way of the world.  The mark is on the forehead because the world demands that you THINK like the world.  The mark is on the hand because the world demands that you DO what the world does.  Anyone that refuses to think like the world and serve the world is denied the right to earn a living in the world.  

  • A baker refuses the mark of the beast on his hand and refuses to bake a wedding cake for a homosexual wedding  ... so the Government takes him to court and bankrupts his business.
  • A rugby player refuses to take the mark of the beast on his forehead and think that evil is good ... so the Association withdraws his ability to play the sport and earn a living from his skill.

Welcome to the tribulation, where men are forced to choose between God and the Beast.  

 

 

Edited by atpollard
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Read the gospels carefully and you'll see very few examples of Jesus castigating people about their sins. He does rip into leaders about their uncaring religious bigotry. Jesus' message is closer aligned to 'follow me' than improve your behaviour. There's no better example than Zacchaeus in Luke 10 v 1:10. Jesus didn't tell Zacchaeus to repay all the people he's swindled, he did that of his own volition. 

 

I do like Theophilus's post -

 

1 hour ago, theophilus said:

No, we believe that salvation is by God's grace without any kind of work.  But when a person is saved he is regenerated and receives a new nature that wants to please God.  This new nature will express itself in his actions and will bring about a change in his behavior.  Good works do not save us but they are the evidence that we are saved.

 

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

James 2:18 ESV

 

To your average Joe Public sin within certain boundaries isn't a problem, so log as it doesn't hurt anyone else. So preaching to them that God can remove their sin, to them is a solution to a non-problem. Which is why Jesus focused more on the joys, power and life changing experience of knowing and following Him than improving someone's moral conduct.

 

However it is legitimate to warn people that the Bible tells us that without Christ's salvation, they will go to Hell just so long as you point out that God wants to rescue them from that fate because of His redeeming love for us; that bit was missing from Israel's rant. Oh and please don't single out a particular group or you'll turn those people away and put others off by reinforcing a stereotype that churches are full of grey haired holier than thou homophobes from the beginning of the last century. We and churches need to dispel that by reaching out to all and ... go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

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Sin is sin from the lie to adultery to other sexual  sins.. when sins are not pointed out as provided in Scripture . We sadly have folks who think they have salvation when they do not.  For myself if i was to accept as Christian, certain behaviors , it would be a damnable lie. Unrepentant sin, sexual  or other wise sends us to hell.  The slippery slop of not calling out sin  shows in the below list. 

 

LGBT clergy in Christianity

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  (Redirected from Ordination of LGBT Christian clergy)

 

 

The ordination of lesbian, gay, bisexual and/or transgender (LGBT) clergy who are open about their sexuality (or gender identity if transgender), are sexually active if lesbian, gay, or bisexual, or are in committed same-sex relationships is a debated practice within some contemporary Christian Church communities.

While most Christian churches ban the ordination of LGBT clergy because they view homosexuality and identifying as transgender as incompatible with Biblical teaching and traditional Christian practice,[1] a growing number of churches are allowing openly LGBT clergy to serve. The Metropolitan Community Church, a predominantly LGBT church, has ordained LGBT candidates for ministry since its founding in 1968. In 1972, the United Church of Christ became the first mainline Protestant denomination in the United States to ordain an openly gay clergy. Other churches are the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (since 2010) and the Presbyterian Church (USA) (since 2012). The Episcopal Church in the United States and the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) have also allowed ordination of openly gay and lesbian candidates for ministry for some years. Internationally, churches that have ordained openly lesbian or gay clergy include the Church of Scotland, the Church of England, the Church in Wales, the Church of Sweden, the Church of Norway, the Church of Denmark, the Church of Iceland, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland, the Evangelical Church in Germany, the Methodist Church in Britain, the Protestant Church in the Netherlands, the United Protestant Church in Belgium, the Swiss Reformed Church, the United Protestant Church of France, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada, Anglican Church in Canada, the Old Catholic Church, the Czechoslovak Hussite Church and the United Church of Christ in Japan.[2]

The issue of ordination has caused particular controversy in the worldwide Anglican communion, following the election of the Bishop of New Hampshire Gene Robinsonin the US Episcopal Church.

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Staff

 

John Piper talks about self-idolatry.

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Rev 21:8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. 
 

Quote

In the 10 April post the 30-year-old fullback, a staunch Christian, wrote "hell awaits" for "drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists, idolaters".

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/15/2019 at 3:38 AM, Butterfly8 said:

Recently, a Christian footballer declared in his facebook account, that all homosexuals will go to Hell.

For the sake of understanding the Bible, I give a case study of homosexuals who believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and that Jesus died for our sins and are trying to repent but occasionally practice homosexuality but quickly repent their ways - the cycle of going straight for some time and going back to their homosexual ways for a day or two. They go to Church & pray often to change theirs ways but are finding it very hard.
Question: In the above case , will "Christian" homosexuals go to hell? Please support your arguments with Bible Scripture verses.

Unredeemed homosexuals will go to Hell .But that is not what is sending them to Hell. What sends people to Hell is their refusal to believe and denial of the Lord Jesus Christ  . When the unbelieving are judged they will be held accountable for all of their sins . Homosexuality being among them.   M

Edited by Matthew A.Duvall

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As far as I know there is only one passage in the New Testament that singles out a particular sin that is so disgusting to God that He actually withdraws His restraining influence on the people who practice this sin. Romans 1:27 thru 32 "Likewise also the men, leaving the natural function of the woman, burned in their lust toward one another, men doing what is inappropriate with men, and receiving in themselves the due penalty of their error. Even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil habits, secret slanderers backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also approve of those who practice them." 

 

I Googled the word "reprobate" and came up with the following definitions from several different dictionaries: depraved, unprincipled, wicked, rejected by God and beyond hope of salvation, excluded from the elect, to abandon to eternal damnation, morally worthless.  

 

According to a statistic I recently read, nearly 50% of homosexual men say they have had 500 or more sexual partners in their lifetime, and 80% of them were one night stands. The myth of the homosexual male that is dedicated to one partner for life is just that, a myth. 

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On 7/15/2019 at 3:38 AM, Butterfly8 said:

Recently, a Christian footballer declared in his facebook account, that all homosexuals will go to Hell.

For the sake of understanding the Bible, I give a case study of homosexuals who believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and that Jesus died for our sins and are trying to repent but occasionally practice homosexuality but quickly repent their ways - the cycle of going straight for some time and going back to their homosexual ways for a day or two. They go to Church & pray often to change theirs ways but are finding it very hard.
Question: In the above case , will "Christian" homosexuals go to hell? Please support your arguments with Bible Scripture verses.

 

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

 

 

 

JLB

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Rev. 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

2 Kings, 2:11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.

 

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

 

Eph, 4:9 “Now that He ascended, what is it, but because He also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?”

 

Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

 

Hell: The KJV translates Strong's H7585 in the following manner: grave (31x), hell 

 

γέεννα géenna, gheh'-en-nah; of Hebrew origin (H1516 and H2011); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment:—hell.

 

When you say hell what do you mean? If it’s the grave, then other than the two mentioned above I think everyone goes other than those remaining when Christ returns. The lake of fire seems to be something different.

 

If you mean eternal damnation, then, there will be every kind of unrepentant heart there.

 

I didn’t spend much time on this, but the only sins given special designation are, fornication, (A sin against your body,

Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

and homosexuality, a sin against nature.

Ron, 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

 

There are plenty ways to get it wrong. Only one way to get it right, through God’s grace by Christs sacrifice.

 

In Christ

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