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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
William

John 3:16 and Man’s Ability to Choose God

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7 minutes ago, Solas said:

Does one have to precede or follow the other? How about simultaneous?

The Gospel is heard creating faith in an individual.

If faith comes by hearing, how can a person become regenerate without first hearing God's Word?

 

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Genesis 1:3 (KJV) And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

 

Hi Solas,

I leave you to your intended member, William.

 

I just want to say that regeneration, meaning "to make new" really cannot be simultaneous with being born again.

 

When a person is born again by believing in Jesus and understanding that Jesus is our savior and Lord, at that moment God justifies that person.  You can learn about justification if you don't already know this concept (which you might not by your question).

 

After a person is born again the regeneration process begins...the person is made into a new creation with the help of the Holy Spirit.

 

2 Corinthians 5:17

17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

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18 minutes ago, Solas said:

Does one have to precede or follow the other? How about simultaneous?

Simultaneous? No. Seemingly Instantaneous? Yes John 3:8. 

 

If you slow down the process of salvation Regeneration precedes faith.

 

What are the theological implications of either order? and vice versa?

 

For example,

Step 1: The effectual call:

We were made alive first by the Spirit:

Eph 2:5 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ — by grace you have been saved —

 

The faith given to us (not inherent in us):

2 Pe 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

 

We become willing to listen (Salvation is not forced):

Psa 110:3a Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power.

 

And we listened, confessed Jesus as Lord & Savior and followed Him:

Jn 10:27 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

2 minutes ago, GodsGrace said:

When a person is born again by believing in Jesus and understanding that Jesus is our savior and Lord, at that moment God justifies that person.  You can learn about justification if you don't already know this concept (which you might not by your question).

After a person is born again the regeneration process begins...the person is made into a new creation with the help of the Holy Spirit.

This is an example of Synergism Solas and GG is wrongly using theological terms.

 

The 5 Solas convey Monergism which places regeneration before faith.

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1 hour ago, GodsGrace said:

True...as long as we serve satan.

False...after we choose to serve God.

Ok, let's really look at those verses YOU chose.

 

1 hour ago, GodsGrace said:

Acts 16:30-31

  • and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." [Acts 16:30-31 NASB]

So did the jailer just spontaneously decide to change his life ... did he just wake up and decide that today is a good day to start to follow God?

You claim that man makes the choice rather than God choosing a sinner to draw, so let's back up the story a few minutes:

 

  • [Acts 16:27 NASB] 27 When the jailer awoke and saw the prison doors opened, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped.

Is suicide the typical precursor to men deciding to change their lives?

Or is it POSSIBLE that God was preparing a heart ...

  • [Act 16:25-26, 29 NASB] 25 But about midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns of praise to God, and the prisoners were listening to them; 26 and suddenly there came a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison house were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone's chains were unfastened. ... 29 And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas,

 

1 hour ago, GodsGrace said:

Romans 6:16

  • Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone [as] slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? [Rom 6:16 NASB]

"Slaves" does not imply freedom of choice, slavery is the opposite of freedom.  How about if we just keep reading:

 

  • [Rom 6:17-23 NASB] 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in [further] lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So we WERE slaves to sin.  Can a slave free himself?  No.  We were freed from sin ... which implies by another and not that we freed ourselves from sin.  We have become slaves of righteousness and to God.  Can a slave free himself from slavery?  Still, No.

So where is the "Free Will Choice of man" when a slave is freed from one master and bound to another? 

 

However, these verses do discuss both our Free will and God's Sovereign will.  Wages are earned by the man doing the work, so our free will earns us the wages of sin, which is death.  A gift is not "chosen" by the receiver, but by the giver.  God gives the gift of eternal life.  We choose death, God chooses his slaves to give them life. 

 

So back to v.16 ... man does not choose to be a slave to righteousness, God chooses.  We all start out as slaves to sin and must depend on God to free us from our slavery to sin and death.

 

1 hour ago, GodsGrace said:

Galatians 5:13

  • For you were called to freedom, brethren; only [do] not [turn] your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.  [Gal 5:13 NASB]

It says right at the start that "you were called to freedom" ... not that you CHOSE freedom, but were called.  Where have we heard about being called before?  Oh yeah ...

  • [Rom 8:28-30 NASB] 28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to [His] purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to become] conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

God does the calling (and foreknowing and predestining and justifying and glorifying).

 

1 hour ago, GodsGrace said:

So no evidence that man can choose to do these things apart from the draw of God in any of these verses.  So what is the source of the change in man, a "choice" by man that is not mentioned in the word of God or a work of God that is mentioned.

 

 

2 hours ago, GodsGrace said:

Does God sin?

If yes, then YOU could be right.

If no, then YOU cannot be right. 

Now who is engaging in philosophy at the expense of scripture? :RpS_cool:

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This thread brings to mind the Garden  and the women believing the lies of satan .

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4 minutes ago, Becky said:

This thread brings to mind the Garden  and the women believing the lies of satan .

Right, Genesis 3:5 is the only place from which the devil's doctrine of autonomous or libertarian will are taught.

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8 minutes ago, GodsGrace said:

You can learn about justification if you don't already know this concept (which you might not by your question).

 

Justification is an act of God whereby He  declares an ungodly person righteous on  account of faith.

Must I bring in every theological concept when asking a question? How did my question imply I may not understand justification?

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Just now, Solas said:

Justification is an act of God whereby He  declares an ungodly person righteous on  account of faith.

Must I bring in every theological concept when asking a question? How did my question imply I may not understand justification?

I'm debating whether to add a theological encyclopedia to the site.

 

It is a good idea to define theological terminology when debating a Catholic. Regeneration, Justification, and Sanctification mean something wholly different between them and Protestants.

 

Now GG denies being a Catholic but conveys Catholic theology.

 

Take that for what its worth.

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1 minute ago, William said:

I'm debating whether to add a theological encyclopedia to the site.

 

It is a good idea to define theological terminology when debating a Catholic. Regeneration, Justification, and Sanctification mean something wholly different between them and Protestants.

 

Now GG denies being a Catholic but conveys Catholic theology.

 

Take that for what its worth.

Thx, so I may expect a dose of sanctification in the name of justification. 

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15 minutes ago, Solas said:

Thx, so I may expect a dose of sanctification in the name of justification. 

These “five solas” were developed in response to specific perversions of the truth that were taught by the corrupt Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Church taught that the foundation for faith and practice was a combination of the scriptures, sacred tradition, and the teachings of the magisterium and the pope; but the Reformers said, “No, our foundation is sola scriptura”. The Catholic Church taught that we are saved through a combination of God's grace, the merits that we accumulate through penance and good works, and the superfluity of merits that the saints before us accumulated; the reformers responded, “sola gratia”. The Catholic Church taught that we are justified by faith and the works that we produce, which the righteousness that God infuses in us through faith brings about. The reformers responded, “No, we are justified by faith alone, which lays hold of the alien righteousness of Christ that God freely credits to the account of those who believe”. The Catholic Church taught that we are saved by the merits of Christ and the saints, and that we approach God through Christ, the saints, and Mary, who all pray and intercede for us. The Reformers responded, “No, we are saved by the merits of Christ Alone, and we come to God through Christ Alone”. The Catholic Church adhered to what Martin Luther called the “theology of glory” (in opposition to the “theology of the cross”), in which the glory for a sinner's salvation could be attributed partly to Christ, partly to Mary and the saints, and partly to the sinner himself. The reformers responded, “No, the only true gospel is that which gives all glory to God alone, as is taught in the scriptures.”

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6 minutes ago, William said:

These “five solas” were developed in response to specific perversions of the truth that were taught by the corrupt Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Church taught that the foundation for faith and practice was a combination of the scriptures, sacred tradition, and the teachings of the magisterium and the pope; but the Reformers said, “No, our foundation is sola scriptura”. The Catholic Church taught that we are saved through a combination of God's grace, the merits that we accumulate through penance and good works, and the superfluity of merits that the saints before us accumulated; the reformers responded, “sola gratia”. The Catholic Church taught that we are justified by faith and the works that we produce, which the righteousness that God infuses in us through faith brings about. The reformers responded, “No, we are justified by faith alone, which lays hold of the alien righteousness of Christ that God freely credits to the account of those who believe”. The Catholic Church taught that we are saved by the merits of Christ and the saints, and that we approach God through Christ, the saints, and Mary, who all pray and intercede for us. The Reformers responded, “No, we are saved by the merits of Christ Alone, and we come to God through Christ Alone”. The Catholic Church adhered to what Martin Luther called the “theology of glory” (in opposition to the “theology of the cross”), in which the glory for a sinner's salvation could be attributed partly to Christ, partly to Mary and the saints, and partly to the sinner himself. The reformers responded, “No, the only true gospel is that which gives all glory to God alone, as is taught in the scriptures.”

I agree with all that, I was making reference to how Rome blends sanctification in with justification so one technically is not justified until their sanctification has played out. Hence a 'a dose of sanctification in the name of justification'.

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18 hours ago, Solas said:

I agree with all that, I was making reference to how Rome blends sanctification in with justification so one technically is not justified until their sanctification has played out. Hence a 'a dose of sanctification in the name of justification'.

Right, I understood you and posted the historical context of the 5 Solas as additional information.

 

As for what Rome believes and unfortunately teaches Justification is seen as a process and the instrumental cause of "infused" righteousness begins in the sacraments of baptism and penance whereas Protestantism teaches the instrumental cause of "imputed" righteousness is faith.

18 hours ago, GodsGrace said:

After a person is born again the regeneration process begins...the person is made into a new creation with the help of the Holy Spirit. 

Note how GG mistakenly distinguishes between the phrase "born again" and the theological term regeneration and says that they "begin" as if Regeneration is a process.

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16 hours ago, William said:

I'm debating whether to add a theological encyclopedia to the site.

good idea  ,, Some words mean different things to different people ,  When talking with one another folks could be on the same page.  

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One of these verses is not more Scripture then the other .

 

 

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 
Joh_15:16  Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 
 

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3 minutes ago, Becky said:

One of these verses is not more Scripture then the other .

 

 

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 
Joh_15:16  Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 
 

They are both Scripture, but it could be argued that the first is for salvation while the second is pertaining to service.

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OK fair enough  are not all of us called to service? 

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22 hours ago, William said:

Simultaneous? No. Seemingly Instantaneous? Yes John 3:8

 

If you slow down the process of salvation Regeneration precedes faith.

 

What are the theological implications of either order? and vice versa?

 

For example,

Step 1: The effectual call:

We were made alive first by the Spirit:

Eph 2:5 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ — by grace you have been saved —

 

The faith given to us (not inherent in us):

2 Pe 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

 

We become willing to listen (Salvation is not forced):

Psa 110:3a Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power.

 

And we listened, confessed Jesus as Lord & Savior and followed Him:

Jn 10:27 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

This is an example of Synergism Solas and GG is wrongly using theological terms.

 

The 5 Solas convey Monergism which places regeneration before faith.

William,  I'm sure @Solas, being an adult person, will come to know if he believes in monergism or synergism.  GG is NOT using incorrect terminology...just terminology that you do not care for because you don't agree with,,, it as all mainline Christianity does BTW.

 

Regeneration comes before faith?

So God is renewing us even before we have faith in Him?

Interesting concept.

All the rest of Christianity believes that we go before God the WAY WE ARE,,,unregenerate; and He accepts us and makes us into a new creature.

Regenerate means to make new -- at least to most persons.

A person cannot be made new if he does not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in him...

the Holy Spirit does NOT dwell in an unsaved person.

First comes salvation

Then comes regeneration 

 

The following link explains regeneration....

 

Regeneration, while sometimes perceived to be a step in the Ordo salutis ('order of salvation'), is generally understood in Christian theology to be the objective work of God in a believer's life. Spiritually, it means that God brings Christians to new life or "born again" from a previous state of separation from God and subjection to the decay of death (Ephesians 2:4).[1]

 

source:  

 

 

One could believe the 5 solas, which only calvinists adhere to...

or they could believe what the rest of Christianity believes...

John: 3:1-7  Jesus tells Nicodemus that he should not marvel that Jesus told him one should be born again...indeed, since it is Nicodemus' choice to be born again or not.  To accept Jesus as Savior and Lord, or not.

 

To the woman at the well Jesus said:

John 4:14

14but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”

 

WHOEVER drinks of the water Jesus will give....

EVERYONE is welcomed by God to be saved by believing in His Son...

 

The N.T. teaches synergism.

God makes Himself available to all of mankind....

Man chooses whether or not he wishes to serve God and be born again.

At the moment a person chooses to serve God, the Holy Spirit comes to be that persons helper, as Jesus taught in

John 16:7

7“But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

 

Jesus said if we abide in His word...we are truly disciples of His...

IF we abide in His word --- He's giving us the choice of abiding or not.

John 8:31

31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, GodsGrace said:

William,  I'm sure @Solas, being an adult person, will come to know if he believes in monergism or synergism.  

LOL, what does Sola mean in context of the 5 Solas? LOL, like solas conveys Synergism!

 

And let's not turn to Scripture GG because I can't bear to see you twist a verse anymore. 

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23 hours ago, atpollard said:

Ok, let's really look at those verses YOU chose.

 

  • and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." [Acts 16:30-31 NASB]

So did the jailer just spontaneously decide to change his life ... did he just wake up and decide that today is a good day to start to follow God?

You claim that man makes the choice rather than God choosing a sinner to draw, so let's back up the story a few minutes:

 

  • [Acts 16:27 NASB] 27 When the jailer awoke and saw the prison doors opened, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped.

Is suicide the typical precursor to men deciding to change their lives?

Or is it POSSIBLE that God was preparing a heart ...

  • [Act 16:25-26, 29 NASB] 25 But about midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns of praise to God, and the prisoners were listening to them; 26 and suddenly there came a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison house were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone's chains were unfastened. ... 29 And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas,

 

You know A,  The bible is a story...it tries to say a lot with few words.

Read the story of the jailer again.  He was terrified that Paul and Silas might have escaped from jail.  Why?   Because the Romans were rather cruel --- remember what they did to Jesus?  Do you know that tens of thousands were crucified at their hands?  The jailer most probably preferred to just kill himself than be at the hands of the Romans in the colony of Philippi.

 

He saw Paul and Silas singing and praying to God...and we don't really know if the jailer had other experiences regarding the knowledge of God.  We can only stay with what is written and understand that he DID want to become saved...and when he asked HOW he could become saved, and they answered BELIEVE IN THE LORD JESUS AND YOU WILL BE SAVED.

 

This is a specific instruction.  Paul/Silas did not say...YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING to save yourself..you have to wait and see if GOD CHOOSES you.

They said:  BELIEVE and you WILL BE SAVED.  It was the jailers free will choice to believe in Jesus.

23 hours ago, atpollard said:

 

  • Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone [as] slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? [Rom 6:16 NASB]

"Slaves" does not imply freedom of choice, slavery is the opposite of freedom.  How about if we just keep reading:

 

You're missing the point of course because you read your belief into every verse in the N.T.

 

The verse says 

Romans 6:16 

Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey....either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness.

 

Please notice that the person PRESENTS THEMSELVES to either God or satan to obey either one or the other to find death or righteousness.

 

It's impossible to come away from the N.T. not believing in free will because it's throughout the bible and is how God made us.

 

What does being a slave have anything to do with not being free?

Please use context....

A person is THE SLAVE of the one to whom they present themselves....

And is this not true?

23 hours ago, atpollard said:

 

  • [Rom 6:17-23 NASB] 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in [further] lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So we WERE slaves to sin.  Can a slave free himself?  No.  We were freed from sin ... which implies by another and not that we freed ourselves from sin.  We have become slaves of righteousness and to God.  Can a slave free himself from slavery?  Still, No.

So where is the "Free Will Choice of man" when a slave is freed from one master and bound to another? 

 

Yes, you totally misread scripture to suit your fancy.

Please see verse 19 of Romans 17...

19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in [further] lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

 

Again, the person PRESENS HIMSELF to either satan or God.

And look,,,it even speaks of SANCTIFICATION... for which I was scolded by 

@Solas just a few posts ago - as if only the catholic church used this term.

Justification and Sanctification are terms used by PROTESTANTS,,,NOT by the CC.

 

23 hours ago, atpollard said:

 

However, these verses do discuss both our Free will and God's Sovereign will.  Wages are earned by the man doing the work, so our free will earns us the wages of sin, which is death.  A gift is not "chosen" by the receiver, but by the giver.  God gives the gift of eternal life.  We choose death, God chooses his slaves to give them life. 

 

Now you say we have free will?   Compatible free will, my dear sir, is NOT free will at all.

 

A gift is offered by the giver

and

ACCEPTED by the receiver.  

 

God gives the gift of eternal life to WHOEVER wants it...

I don't choose death...I choose life and God promised it to me.

John 3:16

Ephesians 2:8  we are saved BY GRACE  THROUGH FAITH,,,and it is a gift from God.

 

What is the gift?  Most theologians believe it is the entire package of salvation.

God's grace falls on all ... 

Mathew 5:45

23 hours ago, atpollard said:

 

So back to v.16 ... man does not choose to be a slave to righteousness, God chooses.  We all start out as slaves to sin and must depend on God to free us from our slavery to sin and death.

 

  • For you were called to freedom, brethren; only [do] not [turn] your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.  [Gal 5:13 NASB]

It says right at the start that "you were called to freedom" ... not that you CHOSE freedom, but were called.  Where have we heard about being called before?  Oh yeah ...

  • [Rom 8:28-30 NASB] 28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to [His] purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to become] conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

God does the calling (and foreknowing and predestining and justifying and glorifying).

God FOREKNOWS.

He does not predestinate.

What is predestined is the METHOD by which we are saved...

NOT WHO is saved.

He predestined us to be conformed to the image of His Son...

 

Look at what you posted carefully:

Romans 8:29

29 For those whom He foreknew,

He also predestined [to become] conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

 

1.  God foreknew.

2.  He predestined those He foreknew would come to believe to be conformed to the image of His Son.

3.  Those He predestined to be conformed to Jesus because God foreknew they would choose to be saved... He called.

4.  Those He called, He justified.

5.  Those He justified, He glorified.

 

 

23 hours ago, atpollard said:

 

So no evidence that man can choose to do these things apart from the draw of God in any of these verses.  So what is the source of the change in man, a "choice" by man that is not mentioned in the word of God or a work of God that is mentioned.

 

 

Now who is engaging in philosophy at the expense of scripture? :RpS_cool:

How do you explain Romans 1:19-20 ?

9 minutes ago, William said:

LOL, what does Solas mean in context of the 5 Solas? LOL, like solas conveys Synergism!

 

And let's not turn to Scripture GG because I can't bear to see you twist a verse anymore. 

Did you say twist?

You're an expert...

 

image.png.9e45fcfeac08ff365c84ab3c1d76dbf4.png

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5 minutes ago, GodsGrace said:

Did you say twist?

You're an expert...

You never answered the question.

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23 hours ago, William said:

Right, Genesis 3:5 is the only place from which the devil's doctrine of autonomous or libertarian will are taught.

Really??

You mean God WANTED Adam to sin when he ate the forbidden fruit?

So you're saying that was compatible free will?

 

So you're saying God makes us sin?

 

I hope you realize this theology did not even come into existence until the year 1,500 AD approx.

 

All those theologians from 27 AD to 1,500 AD were dumb?

It took Mr. Calvin to figure everything out?

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, GodsGrace said:

Really??

You mean God WANTED Adam to sin when he ate the forbidden fruit?

So you're saying that was compatible free will?

 

So you're saying God makes us sin?

 

I hope you realize this theology did not even come into existence until the year 1,500 AD approx.

 

All those theologians from 27 AD to 1,500 AD were dumb?

It took Mr. Calvin to figure everything out?

 

 

 

 

 

I see no reason to continue with you. 

 

I consider you a part of the mission field and not a co-laborer in Christ.

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23 hours ago, Solas said:

Justification is an act of God whereby He  declares an ungodly person righteous on  account of faith.

Must I bring in every theological concept when asking a question? How did my question imply I may not understand justification?

Well Solas,  you asked an incredibly fundamental question that most born again Christians know the day after they're saved.

 

So what was I to think?  I wasn't aware that you're here to learn Calvinism, so I apologize for replying to you with the answer that mainline Christianity would give.

 

If you understand Justification,,, why ask WHEN one becomes regenerated?

Seems like you should know the answer yourself.

 

And BTW, Sanctification, which you chided me about, is a CHRISTIAN concept...not a Catholic one...catholics don't even USE the word sanctification.

 

Please see....(and there are many more verses about sanctification)

John 17:17

1 Thes 4:3

2 Thes 2:13

Hebrews 13:12

 

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2 minutes ago, GodsGrace said:

Well Solas,  you asked an incredibly fundamental question that most born again Christians know the day after they're saved.

 

So what was I to think?  I wasn't aware that you're here to learn Calvinism, so I apologize for replying to you with the answer that mainline Christianity would give.

 

If you understand Justification,,, why ask WHEN one becomes regenerated?

Seems like you should know the answer yourself.

 

And BTW, Sanctification, which you chided me about, is a CHRISTIAN concept...not a Catholic one...catholics don't even USE the word sanctification.

 

Please see....(and there are many more verses about sanctification)

John 17:17

1 Thes 4:3

2 Thes 2:13

Hebrews 13:12

 

LOL, what does sola mean? 

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13 minutes ago, William said:

You never answered the question.

What question?

About the 5 solas?

 

I don't mean this in  an uncivil way,,,

Honestly,,,I don't care about the 5 solas.

Where are they in scripture?

Then I'll comment.

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3 minutes ago, GodsGrace said:

What question?

About the 5 solas?

 

I don't mean this in  an uncivil way,,,

Honestly,,,I don't care about the 5 solas.

Where are they in scripture?

Then I'll comment.

You questioned my theological terminology. I'm going to show you in an elementary way how the Protestant solas reject the meanings by which you convey your theology. 

 

It is a straight forward question. What does the word sola mean?

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