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Is Matthew 12:40 using common idiomatic language?

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With another new year, maybe someone new looking in will know of examples as requested in the OP and clarified in further posts. And again, remember that the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. As stated, there are other topics that do that. However, there are some who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language to try to explain the missing 3rd night, which would have to be the case with a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection. But in order to legitimately say that it was employing common, idiomatic/figure of speech/colloquial language, one would have to know of other instances where a daytime or a night time was predicted to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could occur. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise.

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3 days and 3 nights is an idiom known as a synedoche - the whole stands for a part and a part stands for the whole.

 

Another case in terms of reckoning a "day" is found in Acts 10:30-31.

30 Cornelius said, “Four days ago to this hour, I was praying in my house during the ninth hour; and behold, a man stood before me in shining garments, 31 and he said, ‘Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your alms have been remembered before God. (NASB)

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...0&version=NASB

 

Simon Kistemaker: (Acts 10:30): "Four days ago." The time has come for Cornelius to explain why he summoned Peter to his home. In a few sentences he relates the incident that happened "four days ago at this hour." Strictly speaking, the time between Cornelius's vision and the moment he addresses Peter is only three days. But in first-century Palestine, the people regarded part of a day as a full day. Hence, the day of Cornelius's vision is the first day; the day of Peter's vision and the arrival of the messengers in Joppa, the second; the day the travelers left Joppa, the third; the day they arrived in Caesarea, the fourth (Exposition of the Acts of the Apostles, page 389).

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Yes, I am. I could not edit my previous response due to the tight internet restrictions of China that have often not even allowed me to access this site.

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]Faber,

 

re: "Yes, I am."

 

 

 

The Messiah made a point of prophesying that He would spend 3 night times in the "heart" of the earth. How do you account for the missing 3rd night that results from a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection?

 

 

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This was already addressed.

 

TDNT: it has to be remembered that difficulties always arise in the reckoning of days according to Jewish usage. Thus "in Halachic statements part of a day is reckoned as a whole day" and already in the first century A.D. we read: "A day and a night constitute a full day, and part of a full day counts as a whole full day" (jShab., 12a, 15, 17); it is in this light that we are to understand Mt. 12:40 (2:949-950, hēmera, Delling).

 

Three days and three nights

1 Samuel 30:12-13

(12) They gave him a piece of fig cake and two clusters of raisins, and he ate; then his spirit revived. For he had not eaten bread or drunk water for three days and three nights.

(13) David said to him, “To whom do you belong? And where are you from?” And he said, “I am a young man of Egypt, a servant of an Amalekite; and my master left me behind when I fell sick three days ago.

 

1. John Gill: that is, one whole day, and part of two days, as appears from 1 Samuel 30:13.

http://www.studylight.org/commentari...samuel-30.html

2. Matthew Poole: Which is to be understood synecdochically of one whole day, and part of two others, as the same phrase is taken Matthew 12:40, as appears from the next verse, where he saith, three days agone I fell sick, but in the Hebrew it this is the third day since I fell sick.

http://www.studylight.org/commentari...samuel-30.html

 

 

Jonah 1:17

And the LORD appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the stomach of the fish three days and three nights. (NASB)

1. Karl Keil and Franz Delitzsch: The three days and three nights are not to be regarded as fully three times twenty hours, but are to be interpreted according to Hebrew usage, as signifying that Jonah was vomited up again on the third day after he had been swallowed (compare Esther 4:16 with Esther 5:1 and Tob. 3:12, 13, according to the Lutheran text).

http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/kdo/jonah-1.html

Edited by Faber
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Faber,

re: "This was already addressed."

 

I wonder if you could point out the number of the post that gives examples of a daytime or a night time being forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have occurred?

 

 

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The Messiah said that 3 night times would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth". However, there are those who believe that the Messiah died on the 6th day of the week and who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the time between the leaving of His spirit from His body and His resurrection on the 1st day of the week. But this belief allows for only 2 night times to be involved. To reconcile this discrepancy some say that the Messiah was using common Jewish figure of speech/colloquial language. I am simply asking for examples to support that assertion of commonality; i.e., examples where a daytime or a night time was forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have occurred.

 

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Faber,

re: "Part of a day constitutes the whole day. Examples were already given showing this is true.

 

That's an issue for a different topic.

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That's an issue for a different topic.

 

Is Matthew 12:40 using common idiomatic language?

 

What I posted has to to do with the topic of this thread.

 

 

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Faber,

 

re: "What I posted has to to do with the topic of this thread."

 

 

 

The OP, i.e., post #1 asks: "I wonder if anyone knows of any writing that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights? If it is using common idiomatic language, there ought to be examples of that usage in order to be able to make that assertion." That is the only topic issue. That is what is being requested. So far neither you nor anyone else has shown any examples.

 

 

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Faber,

 

re: "See post #52"

 

 

 

Would you please explain exactly where/how post #52 shows an example where a daytime or a night time was said to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have occurred?

 

 

 

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It reads "4 days ago." Thus a day time or night time must be referred to in this 4th day otherwise it would read "3 days ago."

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Faber,

re: "It reads '4 days ago.' Thus a day time or night time must be referred to in this 4th day..."

 

 

 

But how does it show that no part of a day time and/or no part of a night time could have occurred? BTW, "4 days ago " means that 5 calendar days were involved.

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It shows that it could not have included 4 days but rather less than that.

Please cite anyone else who says it was 5 calendar days involved.

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Faber,

re: "It shows that it could not have included 4 days but rather less than that."

 

If 4 calendar days were said to be involved with an event, then at least a portion of 4 daytimes or at least a portion of 4 night times (maybe both) would also have to be involved with the event. So you're going to have to explain how the Cornelius account is an example of where that couldn't have been true.

 

 

 

re: "Please cite anyone else who says it was 5 calendar days involved."

 

I haven't looked for anyone so I can't provide any names. However, the account itself shows that 5 calendar days were involved.

 

 

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Is Matthew 12:40 using common idiomatic language?

 

 

The answer is, No, Matthew 12:40 does not use any '~common idiomatic language~', but rather highly exceptional and specific Hebrew and Christian Biblical '~language~'.

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Maybe a further addition to the OP will make it a bit more clear.

 

1. The Messiah said that He would be three days and three nights in the "heart of the earth"

 

2. There are those who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

 

3. Of those, there are some who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.

 

4. A 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection allows for only 2 nights to be involved.

 

5. To account for the lack of a 3rd night, some of those mentioned above say that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language.

 

6. I am simply asking anyone who thinks it was common, to provide examples to support that belief; i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime and/or no part of the night time could have occurred.

 

 

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