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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Solas

All Men are Born Depraved, But...

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3 minutes ago, Solas said:

...are some born more depraved than others?

Reminds me of Luke 18:10-14

 

10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[a] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

 

Be interesting to ask your question to the Pharisee and to the tax collector!

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2 minutes ago, William said:

Reminds me of Luke 18:10-14

 

10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[a] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

 

Be interesting to ask your question to the Pharisee and to the tax collector!

Well, 'I'm glad I wasn't born like that Pharisee' LOL.

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3 hours ago, William said:

Reminds me of Luke 18:10-14

 

10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[a] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

 

Be interesting to ask your question to the Pharisee and to the tax collector!

How about these two, Cain and Abel? Same parents essentially same environment, I presume same teaching from Adam...what happened in terms of 'equal' depravity?

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Or Jacob [deceit] and Esau? What about Pharoah? Saul or Nero? 

 

I think some men's sins are more apparent. Paul said he was the chief of sinners, did he consider his depravity greater? Perhaps so because he had more awareness and knowledge and ought to have known better. With Saul's vast theological knowledge how could he be so blind? 

 

I think there are two perspectives. One of man and the other of God. Is the lesser of sins least in the eyes of the Holy Lord?

 

Though the question is theological, I try to remind myself from time to time that examining other men's behavior tends to be religious in nature rather than theological. 

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55 minutes ago, Solas said:

Cain and Abel

Public schools

 

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21 minutes ago, Origen said:

Public schools

 

Saw a movie last night, Jack Reacher. There was a scene that bothered me. Some strings were pulled to get a delinquent enrolled in a private school. Other students immediately approached the delinquent, welcomed, and befriended the person. The delinquent than stole one of the other student's wallets. That scene struck a nerve in me. Parents pay great amounts for the education in private schools and to separate their children from such delinquents.

 

Anyhoot, in the scene's conclusion Jack Reacher smirked at the "craftiness" of his alleged daughter which stole the wallet of a fellow student. He obviously was proud of her "street smarts".

I guess the scene struck a nerve because I was from a public school system, and I was overwhelmed when embraced by the new student body in a private school. Quite a contrast. In my mind this is what made Judas' kiss that much more terrible.

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Posted (edited)

 

1 hour ago, Origen said:

Public schools

 

Home schooled. Lol

Edited by Solas
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2 hours ago, William said:

Or Jacob [deceit] and Esau? What about Pharoah? Saul or Nero? 

I didn't go with those lest someone pull the 'culture' or 'gene' card.

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38 minutes ago, Solas said:

Home schooled. Lol

BETTER than mine.

 cedric yarbrough thumbs up GIF by ABC Network

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2 hours ago, William said:

Or Jacob [deceit] and Esau? What about Pharoah? Saul or Nero?

[Rom 9:13 NASB] 13 Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."

[Rom 9:17 NASB] 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."

[Act 26:14-16 NIV] 14 We all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice saying to me in Aramaic,'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.' 15 "Then I asked, 'Who are you, Lord?' " 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,' the Lord replied. 16 'Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me.

 

... So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. [Rom 9:16] 😎

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20 minutes ago, Origen said:

BETTER than mine.

 cedric yarbrough thumbs up GIF by ABC Network

Right, but I was referring to the home schooling of Cain and Abel.

Mine was secular, humanistic pablum reinforced by an atheistic step dad.

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38 minutes ago, atpollard said:

[Rom 9:13 NASB] 13 Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."

[Rom 9:17 NASB] 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."

[Act 26:14-16 NIV] 14 We all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice saying to me in Aramaic,'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.' 15 "Then I asked, 'Who are you, Lord?' " 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,' the Lord replied. 16 'Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me.

 

... So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. [Rom 9:16] 😎

"...the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them." - Albert Einstein

 

My thoughts: 1 Corinthians 1:27-29 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.
 

And just tacking this here because I find this fascinating:

 

"I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know his thoughts. The rest are details." (Clarck, The life and Times of Einstein. New York: The World Publishing Company, 1971)" - Albert Einstein

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, William said:

"...the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them." - Albert Einstein

Deuteronomy 7:6-8 KJV
[6] For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. [7] The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: [8] But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

Edited by Solas

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22 hours ago, Solas said:

Well, 'I'm glad I wasn't born like that Pharisee' LOL.

But you were born like that Pharisee.  All of us were.  In our natural state we all think of ourselves as being morally superior to others.  It was only God's grace that enabled the tax collector to respond the way he did and it is only his grace that enables any of us to respond the same way.

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38 minutes ago, theophilus said:

But you were born like that Pharisee.  All of us were.  In our natural state we all think of ourselves as being morally superior to others.  It was only God's grace that enabled the tax collector to respond the way he did and it is only his grace that enables any of us to respond the same way.

I know that, I was joshin with William, that's why I ended my comment with 'LOL'.

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