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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.

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Is the Unites States a Christian nation?  The best way to answer that question is to look at what is happening in America and then compare that with what the Bible says.

 

In Roe v Wade the Supreme Court ruled that any woman who was pregnant had a right to end the pregnancy by aborting her baby.  The Bible calls children a blessing from God.

 

Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one’s youth.
Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame

when he speaks with his enemies in the gate. 

Psalm 127:3-5 ESV

 

Same sex marriage is becoming more acceptable in the United States.  The Bible says that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

 

Each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. 

1 Corinthians 7:2 ESV

 

There are many people who have been forced to flee their homes because of poverty or persecution.  The United States has closed its borders to these people and only a few of them succeed in finding refuge here.  The Bible says we should welcome such people.

 

When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong.You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. 

Leviticus 19:33,34 ESV

 

You shall not give up to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you.He shall dwell with you, in your midst, in the place that he shall choose within one of your towns, wherever it suits him. You shall not wrong him. 

Deuteronomy 23:15,16 ESV

 

Maybe some believe the Unites States is a Christian nation because so many of its citizens profess to be Christian.  The fact is that many churches have rejected the truth of the gospel and have endorsed the evil practices I have cited.  The Bible said this would happen.

 

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 

2 Timothy 4:3,4 ESV

 

There is no way the United States could be considered a Christian nation.  We have rejected God and deserve only his judgment.

 

And yet there is some good news.  Not all churches have become apostate.  There are still some who are faithfully preaching the truth.  God told Abraham he was going to judge the city of Sodom for its sins.  He promised he would spare the city if there were ten righteous people in it.  As you know he couldn’t find ten righteous and so he destroyed the city.   Perhaps there are enough righteous in the United States to avert its destruction.  There is no hope that the we will ever become a Christian nation but at least we can still rescue individuals by preaching the gospel to them.

 

On the other hand maybe it isn’t impossible to convert the country.  In Jonah’s day no one considered it possible that the city of Nineveh would repent of its sins but that is what happened.  Perhaps we should pray that God would raise up another Jonah to do for the United States what Jonah did for Nineveh.

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2Ch 7:14  If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 
 

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Through out Scripture we see a picture painted of a farmer .  The farmer does not kneel and pray for the field to be seeded without his acting upon that prayer.  Water needs to be in supply (He is the living water) in some places the farmer uses the rain in others rivers or man made  aqueducts. The ground needs to be tilled, weeds removed , weeds flourish when appeased. We can see the weeds left to grown when reading the OT. What kind of seeds can we Christians plant.. I believe  @atpollard  touched on this in the American Birthright thread . A few  seeds on a school board.. the police force , they mayor's office. and so on.. Can we all fill those furrows no, but we can support those who do. Way to often we attack each other, instead of grasping : 

Php 4:8  Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 

These seeds need water, Living Water. A farmer does not throw seeds out and walk away.  Depending on the crop there is weeding, pruning, watering gathering fallen fruit, before the harvest. There is work involved we American Christians can well see the  the laziness of our labours . 

The book of James is not less Scripture than John.  

 

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The United States is not a Christian nation, never was as there is no such thing on earth.

There are nations which have a heavy Biblical influence which this nation once had but has steadily waned over the decades.

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I think any body can be criticized and there can be found exceptions and those exceptions used to make a case against solidarity in a body and the body in whole being Christian. Even in the visible church some may point to the tares or goats and suggest the church is not a Christian body. However, the church like America is founded upon Christian principles. No doubt some bodies are founded more explicitly on the precepts of the Lord than others and yet some are less hypocritical to the exclusion of everyone.

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11 minutes ago, Solas said:

The United States is not a Christian nation, never was as there is no such thing on earth.

There are nations which have a heavy Biblical influence which this nation once had but has steadily waned over the decades.

Interestingly the Constitution like the church's creeds and confessions still remain. Does anyone see why it important for the enemy to rid of not only the Constitution/founding documents but also creeds and confessions? Such documents keep the body from waning in cultural shifts which may occur from time to time.

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1 minute ago, Becky said:

Boy do we throw rocks at one another ? 

Rocks? I don't follow. I was just answering the question to my understanding.

 

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1 minute ago, Solas said:

Rocks? I don't follow. I was just answering the question to my understanding.

 

I removed my post a few to late ... I agree Solas 🙂 Sometimes firing from the hip i shoot my self in the foot.

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3 minutes ago, William said:

Interestingly the Constitution like the church's creeds and confessions still remain. Does anyone see why it important for the enemy to rid of not only the Constitution/founding documents but also creeds and confessions? Such documents keep the body from waning over cultural shifts which may occur from time to time.

Yes, they remain but progressively reinterpreted or ignored, hence waning.

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26 minutes ago, Solas said:

Yes, they remain but progressively reinterpreted or ignored, hence waning.

When liberalism creeps in the founding documents, creeds, and confessions must be explained away or abolished. It is an observable tendency for progressives to argue such documents were only culturally relative for a time. 

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1 hour ago, William said:

I think any body can be criticized and there can be found exceptions and those exceptions used to make a case against solidarity in a body and the body in whole being Christian. Even in the visible church some may point to the tares or goats and suggest the church is not a Christian body. However, the church like America is founded upon Christian principles. No doubt some bodies are founded more explicitly on the precepts of the Lord than others and yet some are less hypocritical to the exclusion of everyone.

 

Yes William, I think we have been blessed because we were founded on Christian principles. We must hold ourselves to a higher standard for that reason. I think we are failing to live up to that higher standard because of progressive politics. We have judgment coming for that.

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51 minutes ago, deade said:

 

Yes William, I think we have been blessed because we were founded on Christian principles. We must hold ourselves to a higher standard for that reason. I think we are failing to live up to that higher standard because of progressive politics. We have judgment coming for that.

Why would the Church (body of born again believers) be identified with the State... As in 'we were founded on Christian principles We must hold ourselves to a higher standard for that reason.'?

  We are to hold ourselves to the highest standard for the fact that we have been redeemed from this present evil age. Those outside the Church, I don't have special expectations from.

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1 hour ago, Solas said:

Why would the Church (body of born again believers) be identified with the State... As in 'we were founded on Christian principles We must hold ourselves to a higher standard for that reason.'?

  We are to hold ourselves to the highest standard for the fact that we have been redeemed from this present evil age. Those outside the Church, I don't have special expectations from.

I think as ambassadors we ought walk more worthily. And it's rational to conclude that as ambassadors to nations that the nation we are a light for ought also.

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I think that one lesson of the Old Testament is that there is no such thing as a Christian (Godly) nation.  There are Christian people, and when they are the leaders of a nation, that nation takes on a Godly appearance, but ultimately it is a thin mask.  People are people.  Do not get me wrong, there most definitely IS a Godly nation.  It is a Kingdom with no geographic boundaries, or official language, or standing army in the traditional sense.  It is united under the banner of ONE KING and shares HIS character. 

 

The best analogy I ever heard came from one of the last places that I expected ... Creflo Dollar.  He said that there are actually THREE teams on every sports field.  There is the Home Team (and half the people are cheering for the home team) and there is the Visiting Team (and half the people are cheering for the visiting team).  Then there is the team with the striped shirts, the referees.  They are not loyal to either the Home Team or the Visiting Team.  They are loyal to something greater than the teams.  For this reason, they can pass freely among the teams and make decisions that are for the good of the game rather than just the team.

 

Christians are part of the Kingdom of God and we walk on this earth more like the Referees than one of the Teams.

America is and will be a Christian when, where, if and for as long as Christian Referees are in leadership positions.  When and where Leadership is handed to one of the teams, the game ceases to be played by Christian rules.

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In prophecy I believe the US is the nation that comes out of the ground as a lamb with two horns and then speaks as a dragon.  I believe it started out with Christian principals as William states above but today is no where near what this country once was.  It is a shame but we still have the US Constitution.

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Just now, CDF47 said:

In prophecy I believe the US is the nation that comes out of the ground as a lamb with two horns and then speaks as a dragon.  I believe it started out with Christian principals as William states above but today is no where near what this country once was.  It is a shame but we still have the US Constitution.

Things weren't as holy as some might think. The treatment of Natives and blacks in slavery. In some ways we've improved and in others we've regressed.

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Just now, William said:

Things weren't as holy as some might think. The treatment of Natives and blacks in slavery. In some ways we've improved and in others we've regressed.

 

Yeah, that's a good point.  There were definitely problems back then as well.

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1 hour ago, William said:

I think as ambassadors we ought walk more worthily. And it's rational to conclude that as ambassadors to nations that the nation we are a light for ought also.

True, we are ambassadors from 'another country'.

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Posted (edited)

The top 5% of the landowners who agitated for and led the Revolution were largely Enlightenment philosophers ( " Deists," if you like), while most of the soldiers and militiamen who actually did the fighting were of the Christian faith of one stripe or another. The Anglican Church had ( for obvious reasons) had fallen out of favor among the colonists, but with the Great Awakening, there were still the Methodist, the Baptist, the Presbyterian and the Congregational churches one could potentially choose from. Among the Germanic groups, there were the Reformed, Lutheran, Amish and Mennonite churches. The elite might not have been Christian, as a whole, but most of the rest of the fledgling country was, although to see the laws in place today, you wouldn't necessarily know that. Secularism has been a plague on our country since the beginning.

Edited by ConfessionalLutheran
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3 minutes ago, ConfessionalLutheran said:

Among the Germanic groups, there were the Reformed, Lutheran, Amish and Mennonite churches. the elite might not have been Christian, as a whole, but most of the rest of the fledgling country was, although to see the laws in place today, you wouldn't necessarily know that.

The elite were not our monarchs but the People's representatives. I think the founding documents do not represent the personal views of "Deist" so much as the views of "We the People's".

 

Your thoughts?

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Just now, William said:

The elite were not our monarchs but our representatives. I think the founding documents do not represent their personal "Deist" views as much as "We the People's".

 

Your thoughts?

I tend to agree that in the beginning, the Founders knew who they were working for and their writings reflected that knowledge. The Christian Faith was well- reflected in those documents. I would posit, however, that as time went on, those documents were interpreted and reinterpreted in the name of political expediency. As one case after the next ( much of American secularism was established more by the courts than by the widespread consent of the American people) was presented to the Supreme Court, our assumptions of ages past were trimmed away until we see our country in the state of spiritual famine it's in now.

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13 hours ago, theophilus said:

There are many people who have been forced to flee their homes because of poverty or persecution.  The United States has closed its borders to these people and only a few of them succeed in finding refuge here.  The Bible says we should welcome such people.

 I don't fully agree with the above. First of all, Old Covenant commands were cited so they don't apply to the Christian today.

 

 America is no longer a frontier nation so I don't think it would be possible or wise to accept any and/or all the people throughout the world who claim to be persecuted or live in poverty. If we were to do so would there be any limits? If so, what would they be? Suppose 2 billion people wanted to come to the USA right now. That would present many problems which I don't think we would be prepared for.

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9 hours ago, Faber said:

 I don't fully agree with the above. First of all, Old Covenant commands were cited so they don't apply to the Christian today.

 

 America is no longer a frontier nation so I don't think it would be possible or wise to accept any and/or all the people throughout the world who claim to be persecuted or live in poverty. If we were to do so would there be any limits? If so, what would they be? Suppose 2 billion people wanted to come to the USA right now. That would present many problems which I don't think we would be prepared for.

Certainly we couldn't take in 2 billion people but we could take in more than we are allowing in now.  

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On 5/9/2019 at 8:33 AM, theophilus said:

Is the Unites States a Christian nation? 

Hi and God bless! History has shown up until the present that the majority of all nations have remained unsaved, and this is evidence that the majority of mankind will perish (Mat 7:13).

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On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 7:34 AM, theophilus said:

Certainly we couldn't take in 2 billion people but we could take in more than we are allowing in now.  

Would you welcome them into your neighborhood ? I wouldn't ! With the impossible task of trying to check  the backgrounds of these people I would say that we were letting more criminals and future criminals into our country than we could ever imagine. I would take a hardline look at stopping this continual flow of people coming into this country based on the uncertainty of their past criminal history . The children that most of them "rent" in order to claim them as their own shows how much respect they have for upholding  laws . If they claim these children as their own then what is to say about their ability to break the more serious laws of our nation ? Bring them in unabated and you build an entirely new culture  based on severing laws and yes ,even common decency ! I am greatly appreciative  that President Trump continues in his efforts to stop this flow of illegals at the border !

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