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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
CDF47

Biblical Prophecy Discussion

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Members of an atheist forum I belong to point to the link below to try to refute Bible prophecy. Please read the below link and discuss the claims made in the article.

 

@Origen Do you have any comments on the claims made in the article below?

 

 

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3 hours ago, CDF47 said:

Members of an atheist forum I belong to point to the link below to try to refute Bible prophecy. Please read the below link and discuss the claims made in the article.

@Origen Do you have any comments on the claims made in the article below?

Not really.  I just don't waste my time on that kind of thing, namely atheist claims.  It is not that I think the subject matter is unimportant or pointless.  I find atheists are not interested in understanding a text within its literary, historical, cultural or theological contexts.  It is my experience that atheists do not care getting to the truth of a matter but in trying to score points.  They have already made up their minds and no evidence (or explanation) could ever change their minds.

 

Beside there are loads of commentaries by qualified scholars discussing and addressing those issues.

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5 minutes ago, Origen said:

They have already made up their minds and no evidence (or explanation) could ever change their minds.

And provide a reason for them to change their minds today and they'll find a better reason tomorrow to believe what they want.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Origen said:

Not really.  I just don't waste my time on that kind of thing, namely atheist claims.  It is not that I think the subject matter is unimportant or pointless.  I find atheists are not interested in understanding a text within its literary, historical, cultural or theological contexts.  It is my experience that atheists do not care getting to the truth of a matter but in trying to score points.  They have already made up their minds and no evidence (or explanation) could ever change their minds.

Unfortunately, for many of them I believe that is the case.  However, I think some of them might be able to be reached (I hope).  I know of one atheist who converted from being a Christian to an atheist and back to being a Christian again.  That is the reason I like talking with them and trying to address their points or else I would have given up a long time ago.  They are not always the most pleasant group for Christians to chat with.

2 minutes ago, William said:

And change their minds today and they'll find a better reason tomorrow to believe what they want.

Yeah, that probably is often the case.  What do you think of the article they posted if you have time to look at it?

 

Edited by CDF47

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3 hours ago, CDF47 said:

Do you have any comments on the claims made in the article below? 

In the name of Apologetics a lot of people only hear this part of the verse:

 

1 Peter 3:15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect

 

And they fail to read what follows:

 

but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect

 

The ones that ignore that are as contentious as militant Atheists which go around trying to force their worldview upon everyone else.

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1 minute ago, CDF47 said:

Unfortunately, for many of them I believe that is the case.  However, I think some of them might be able to be reached (I hope).  I know of one atheist who converted from being a Christian to an atheist and back to being a Christian again.  That is the reason I like talking with them and trying to address their points or else I would have given up a long time ago.  They are not always the most pleasant group for Christians to chat with.

There are loads of commentaries by qualified scholars discussing and addressing the issues in problem texts.  You know what you don't find on that site you ask about?   Guess?

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1 minute ago, William said:

In the name of Apologetics a lot of people only hear this part of the verse:

 

1 Peter 3:15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect

 

And they fail to read what follows:

 

but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect

 

The ones that ignore that are as contentious as militant Atheists which go around trying to force their worldview upon everyone else.

In the atheist forum I am on, I think I am up against militant atheists. Some of them are hard core atheists as it comes. They do not even acknowledge the information inside of genetic code or the fine-tuning of the universe.  Not sure how those ones could ever be reached.  

3 minutes ago, Origen said:

There are loads of commentaries by qualified scholars discussing and addressing the issues in problem texts.  You know what you don't find on that site you ask about?   Guess?

I should read a commentary on that.  I would love to provide them some good sources if you know any.  

 

What is that, you are thinking?

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4 minutes ago, CDF47 said:

They do not even acknowledge the information inside of genetic code or the fine-tuning of the universe.

1 Peter 3:15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect

 

Is that the hope that is in you? Genetic codes or fine tuning of the universe?

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8 minutes ago, William said:

1 Peter 3:15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect

 

Is that the hope that is in you? Genetic codes or fine tuning of the universe?

Yes, it is the hope that is in me for sure or else I wouldn't even bother discussing it with them on that site.  Genetic codes and the fine-tuning of the universe are just further proofs the Lord gave us to show His existence.  It amazes me.  

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3 minutes ago, CDF47 said:

Yes, it is the hope that is in me for sure or else I wouldn't even bother discussing it with them on that site.  Genetic codes and the fine-tuning of the universe are just further proofs the Lord gave us to show His existence.  It amazes me.  

The very hope that secularism cannot provide is found in genetic codes and fine tuning of the universe?

 

God's existence is believed by Satan and yet he is without hope.

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16 minutes ago, CDF47 said:

What is that

You don't find a bibliography of qualified scholars.  One would think if they were really interested they would want to be informed on the matter by experts.  

 

It is almost as if they really don't care.

intertitles GIF by hoppip

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1 minute ago, William said:

The very hope that secularism cannot provide is found in genetic codes and fine tuning of the universe?

No, it is found in Christ.

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3 minutes ago, Origen said:

You don't find a bibliography of qualified scholars.  One would think if they were really interested they would want to be informed on the matter by experts.  

 

It is almost as if they really don't care.

intertitles GIF by hoppip

Some of them may.

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1 minute ago, CDF47 said:

No, it is found in Christ.

1 Peter 3:15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect.

 

If they're asking you about Jesus Christ and the reason for the hope that is in you isn't that different than debating genetic codes and fine tuning of the universe?

 

redherring.png.4d1575cb308087f2a5b8be6571fe087a.png

 

33 minutes ago, Origen said:

I just don't waste my time on that kind of thing, namely atheist claims.

Words to the wise.

 

God bless,

William

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2 minutes ago, William said:

1 Peter 3:15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect.

 

If they're asking you about Jesus Christ and the reason for the hope that is in you isn't that different than debating genetic codes and fine tuning of the universe?

 

redherring.png.4d1575cb308087f2a5b8be6571fe087a.png

 

Words to the wise.

 

God bless,

William

 

I understand.  The only thing is, it is one of my favorite topics to discuss.  I think the Lord gave us this proof so that we would use it in our discussions.  It could not be anymore obvious that we are created, yet I go in circles with these atheists on this topic.  I know many of them don't care but my hope is that some of them might and some lurkers may also.  

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5 minutes ago, CDF47 said:

Some of them may.

Some might but I doubt anyone ever asked you for that kind of information.

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3 minutes ago, Origen said:

Some might but I doubt anyone ever asked you for that kind of information.

 

I didn't need to be asked.  

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8 minutes ago, CDF47 said:

my favorite topics to discuss

I think you nailed it. Let's not kid ourselves though we are all guilty at times of thinking our desires and wants are in service to the Lord.

 

Ezekiel 34:11 “For thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I, I myself will search for my sheep and will seek them out.

 

I'm thankful that the obstacle I may become including times which may be distracting others from more meaningful dialogue is not an obstacle the Lord cannot overcome.
 

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9 minutes ago, CDF47 said:

I didn't need to be asked.  

I find that comment strange.  They may not have needed to ask but if they were really sincere and interested there is no reason they could not have the information on their own.

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1 minute ago, William said:

I think you nailed it. Let's not kid ourselves though we are all guilty at times of thinking our desires and wants are in the service of the Lord.

 

Ezekiel 34:11 “For thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I, I myself will search for my sheep and will seek them out.

 

I'm thankful that the obstacle I may become including times which may be distracting others from more meaningful dialogue is not an obstacle the Lord cannot overcome.
 

 

I just think we should try to reach these people that can be reached.  The Lord even gave them their own science which proves His existence.  

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14 minutes ago, CDF47 said:

The only thing is, it is one of my favorite topics to discuss.  

 

 Hello CDF47,

 I am thankful the Lord has put this on your heart. Pray for discernment as to when to continue in conversation and when to realize when it is reaching a point of giving that which is holy unto dogs and casting your pearls before swine (Matthew 7:6).

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5 minutes ago, Origen said:

I find that comment strange.  They may not have needed to ask but if they were really sincere and interested there is no reason they could not have the information on their own.

Well, it took me a while to find the proofs of design in DNA and in the universe.  It takes a personal search.  Cannot rely on our school systems for any of it.  So I thought I would point it out to them (what I found). 

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Just now, Faber said:

Pray for discernment as to when to continue in conversation and when to realize when it is reaching a point of giving that which is holy unto dogs and casting your pearls before swine (Matthew 7:6).

For the love of Pete, they've created an atheist website to refute and propagate unbelief.

 

pigs GIF

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 If the JW's had a huge meeting and somehow I was invited to speak unfettered fro 10 minutes I think I would take the opportunity.

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