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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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NetChaplain

Path of Constancy

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Only He who has created foreknows the direction which all choose to travel, which from the point of incarnation is a constant, and never changes! He knows “the end from the beginning“ (Isa 46:10) of all things and therefore knows if our direction of travel will always be either toward Him or away from Him.

 

One might have the understanding that we can at times traverse toward God and then away from Him or even back again toward Him, but this would conflict with the reasoning that since one’s end will be apart from God, there is only one direction that can to be traveled. It doesn’t matter which way we think we are traveling, if our overall desire isn’t always to move towards God—who is forever blessed above all!

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4 hours ago, NetChaplain said:

Only He who has created foreknows the direction which all choose to travel, which from the point of incarnation is a constant, and never changes! He knows “the end from the beginning“ (Isa 46:10) of all things and therefore knows if our direction of travel will always be either toward Him or away from Him.

Reminds me of the theology behind supralapsarianism and infralapsarianism.

 

For example, "God's ultimate purpose for creation and redemptive history is the triumph of the Lamb both in the destruction of his enemies and the salvation of his people; and this plan logically requires the existence of sin, and also of God's triumph over that sin through righteous judgment and sovereign mercy. If God's ultimate purpose in history is the display of his glory in the person and work of Christ; and if the manifold glory of Christ includes righteous wrath against sin; then God's eternal purpose of redemption necessitated the Fall, and did not just respond to it."
 

Even the sin in our lives which may be represented by "switchbacks" while climbing towards the top of the mountain are known and there for a purpose. What we may consider a switch in direction a worthless wasted time in our journey is actually there for purpose and reason. Likewise, if the objective of the Israelites were to find the promised land then 40 years wandering would seemingly be a waste of time. Our objective or destination cannot be said to be here or there or down in actual valleys, past the hills or uptop mountains but is already (when) in our (where) midst.

 

 

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1 hour ago, William said:

Reminds me of the theology behind supralapsarianism and infralapsarianism.

 

For example, "God's ultimate purpose for creation and redemptive history is the triumph of the Lamb both in the destruction of his enemies and the salvation of his people; and this plan logically requires the existence of sin, and also of God's triumph over that sin through righteous judgment and sovereign mercy. If God's ultimate purpose in history is the display of his glory in the person and work of Christ; and if the manifold glory of Christ includes righteous wrath against sin; then God's eternal purpose of redemption necessitated the Fall, and did not just respond to it."
 

Even the sin in our lives which may be represented by "switchbacks" while climbing towards the top of the mountain are known and there for a purpose. What we may consider a switch in direction a worthless wasted time in our journey is actually there for purpose and reason. Likewise, if the objective of the Israelites were to find the promised land then 40 years wandering would seemingly be a waste of time.

 

Our objective or destination cannot be said to be here or there or down in actual valleys, past the hills or uptop mountains but is already (when) in our (where) midst.

 

 

Hi Will and God bless your Family and work on this site! Interesting, but my reasoning is that the time and labors of those who will never choose to believe are but a chronological testimony of their inevitable perishing, because there's nothing in-between concerning omniscience. It's always an either/or issue, for there is no happenstance within foreknowledge, but only with non-omniscient beings (which of course includes all beings but God).

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1 hour ago, NetChaplain said:

Hi Will and God bless your Family and work on this site! Interesting, but my reasoning is that the time and labors of those who will never choose to believe are but a chronological testimony of their inevitable perishing, because there's nothing in-between concerning omniscience. It's always an either/or issue, for there is no happenstance within foreknowledge, but only with non-omniscient beings (which of course includes all beings but God).

Hey N.C.,

 

Likewise, from Isaiah 46:10 I'm simply conveying that God isn't limited to only His foreknowledge (what I glean as your meaning of such) of events but He has decreed through His Prophets this or that events which are in His power to occur. So granted, I agree in that there is no "happenstance" in God's foreknowledge, not because He learns of things which are outside of His sovereignty due to or less by impotence but because He is Sovereign and omnipotent. Tis why I was reminded of the Supra vs Infra theological perspectives. This isn't so much what is acknowledged bout an Omniscient God with an out of control creation (man) as is emphasized bout an Omnipotent Sovereign God. For example, and not really wanting to go off into this direction in the thread but in my view God doesn't "learn" anything and adjust His plan because of man's decision. God already knows because He has declared the end from the beginning...... and along the way God has testified about HIMSELF and what HE has decreed by the Prophets. God is truthful and if God decrees something that something through the Prophets has to be brought into fruition or one or the other commits blasphemy and/or bears false witness (and in such way I agree that this may be a damnable testimony towards false prophets, teachers, etc to the extent of being unforgivable).

 

God bless,

William

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1 hour ago, William said:

Hey N.C.,

 

Likewise, from Isaiah 46:10 I'm simply conveying that God isn't limited to only His foreknowledge (what I glean as your meaning of such) of events but He has decreed through His Prophets this or that events which are in His power to occur.

Myself, I couldn't see God operating or performing in any way other than from and in His omniscience, unless I'm not understanding you.

 

1 hour ago, William said:

in my view God doesn't "learn" anything and adjust His plan because of man's decision. God already knows because He has declared the end from the beginning

I could be misunderstanding you here, but true, God never adjusts or changes what He knows He's going to do, thus He knew He would have to condemn those whom He knew will choose their own way. I think the issue is that He knew what He was going to do because He knew what we would choose. Omniscience is the most difficult attribute of God to understand, but it answers more about Him than anything else, IMO.

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No argument from me. We're touching upon a subject that such a subtle distinction means a grand canyon in theology. It is so subtle on the surface that many people just pitch the supra and infra arguments in the meaningless theology bin.

17 hours ago, NetChaplain said:

Myself, I couldn't see God operating or performing in any way other than from and in His omniscience, unless I'm not understanding you.

 

Man has nothing to teach God. God learns nothing from man. In Isaiah 46:10 God is the counselor He does not receive council by man.

17 hours ago, NetChaplain said:

I could be misunderstanding you here, but true, God never adjusts or changes what He knows He's going to do, thus He knew He would have to condemn those whom He knew will choose their own way. I think the issue is that He knew what He was going to do because He knew what we would choose. Omniscience is the most difficult attribute of God to understand, but it answers more about Him than anything else, IMO.

God knows His Elect and those reprobate which are not chosen. He knows that those He passes over will perish.

 

As far as foreknowledge a lot of people use it to convey God's knowledge of an event, works, etc before they occur as if He peered into the future to learn rather than "knowing" beforehand the very nature of a thing. For example, foreknowledge also means an intimate knowledge which is established beforehand (before the foundation of the world God knew the Elect Romans 8:29-30) as Adam knew Eve, as God knew Jeremiah before the womb, as God knew Amos out of the families of Israel etc. Foreknowledge is thus used in such a way that God laid upon an object (Elect) His affections, they were from the beginning in the hands of the Potter God. God literally foreloved (synonymous with foreknowledge) such persons as to bring them to Himself. As for the reprobate, God knows them too but not in the intimate way as described. God knows them in such a way that in the end He will say, "I never knew you" Matthew 7:23. Compare how some convey Romans 8:29-30 to Matthew 7:21 which by foreseeable works they are condemned. God knows who the reprobate reject before they do, of course, because that's what the reprobate do by nature as conveyed in John 3:18 they stand condemned "already".

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15 hours ago, William said:

No argument from me. We're touching upon a subject that such a subtle distinction means a grand canyon in theology. It is so subtle on the surface that many people just pitch the supra and infra arguments in the meaningless theology bin.

Man has nothing to teach God. God learns nothing from man. In Isaiah 46:10 God is the counselor He does not receive council by man.

God knows His Elect and those reprobate which are not chosen. He knows that those He passes over will perish.

 

As far as foreknowledge a lot of people use it to convey God's knowledge of an event, works, etc before they occur as if He peered into the future to learn rather than "knowing" beforehand the very nature of a thing. For example, foreknowledge also means an intimate knowledge which is established beforehand (before the foundation of the world God knew the Elect Romans 8:29-30) as Adam knew Eve, as God knew Jeremiah before the womb, as God knew Amos out of the families of Israel etc. Foreknowledge is thus used in such a way that God laid upon an object (Elect) His affections, they were from the beginning in the hands of God. God literally foreloved (synonymous with foreknowledge) such persons as to bring them to Himself. As for the reprobate, God knows them too but not in the intimate way as described. God knows them in such a way that in the end He will say, "I never knew you" Matthew 7:23. Compare how some convey Romans 8:29-30 to Matthew 7:21 which by foreseeable works they are condemned. God knows who the reprobate reject before they do, of course, because that's what the reprobate do by nature as conveyed in John 3:18 they stand condemned "already".

Appreciate your input Brother Will!

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