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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Jedothek

When the church went astray

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Jedothek

 When, according to most Protestants, did the church go off the rails? presumably they think that it was on the right track through the time of Paul and the apostles. Do they accept the first 7 church councils  as being authoritative? obviously they don’t accept Trent. did the church go astray when the bishop of Rome was accepted as the boss of the others  -- and when was that?

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theophilus

The church began to go astray almost as soon as it was formed.  Most of Paul's letters were written to correct errors.  And don't forget the letters to the seven churches in Revelation.  The book of Acts tells of the sin of Ananias and Sapphira and of the complaints by the Hellenists about their widows being neglected in the distribution of food. 

 

This seems to be the pattern for all of God's revelations.  The Israelites made a golden calf while Moses was up on Sinai receiving God's commandments.  It doesn't take long to fall into sin and error. 

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GodsGrace
On 3/25/2019 at 3:03 PM, theophilus said:

The church began to go astray almost as soon as it was formed.  Most of Paul's letters were written to correct errors.  And don't forget the letters to the seven churches in Revelation.  The book of Acts tells of the sin of Ananias and Sapphira and of the complaints by the Hellenists about their widows being neglected in the distribution of food. 

 

This seems to be the pattern for all of God's revelations.  The Israelites made a golden calf while Moses was up on Sinai receiving God's commandments.  It doesn't take long to fall into sin and error. 

What you say is very true...but we can also say that this would be normal for a church just beginning.  Jesus left nothing written and everything had to be put together by the Apostles and those that followed them.

 

Wouldn't you say this is different than the heresies that appeared in the early church?  

 

Some questions had to be faced...for instance were Christians allowed to ear certain food, or sacrificed foods, or what about circumcision and should they still go to the temple?

 

I believe the church began to change after it was declared to be the state religion by Constantine, or the one after him whose name doesn't come to mind right now.

 

I think the church went astray when it stopped caring for souls and began to want power.

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Origen
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9 minutes ago, GodsGrace said:

I believe the church began to change after it was declared to be the state religion by Constantine, or the one after him whose name doesn't come to mind right now.

Constantine legalized Christianity (See Edict of Milan).

 

Theodosius I, Gratian, and Valentinian II made Christianity the state religion (See Edict of Thessalonica).

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GodsGrace
8 minutes ago, Origen said:

Constantine legalized Christianity (See Edict of Milan).

 

Theodosius I, Gratian, and Valentinian II made Christianity the state religion (See Edict of Thessalonica).

I was thinking of Gratian --- thanks.

 

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Matthew A.Duvall
On ‎3‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 8:44 AM, Jedothek said:

 When, according to most Protestants, did the church go off the rails? presumably they think that it was on the right track through the time of Paul and the apostles. Do they accept the first 7 church councils  as being authoritative? obviously they don’t accept Trent. did the church go astray when the bishop of Rome was accepted as the boss of the others  -- and when was that?

The True Church never did go "off the rails ". You're using Catholic Church doctrines that are not recognized in protestant doctrines of grace  . We, in the True Church that was built upon the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself do not practice doctrines that are not part of the biblical record we recognize outside of the biblical text .The one in particular we observe  is the coveted King James Version of the Holy Bible. Anything added to that or any of a number of newer versions do not approve of extra biblical data composed by men of no means for the Words of Christ . The Catholic Church is a false representative of religious activity based on the accomplishments of any number of people who are responsible for a "miracle" and thus are elevated to sainthood whereby they are regarded as being in the place of Christ . Any protestant group knows well and good that Jesus Christ did not need a so called " Vicar " to represent Him here on earth and even aspiring to join Him in heaven itself .  In finishing we do not regard the 7 church councils or Trent .Not alone the absolute authority of the pope whom we regard as the Anti Christ .

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Jedothek
Posted (edited)

Thanks to everyone for their thought-provoking posts: in addition, I note that I did not make explicit the thought that provoked my question, but I do so now. Protestants tend to claim that they base all doctrine on scripture; but on what basis are the canonical books identified (whether the k j v list, the Vulgate list, whatever)? -- as including, say, John, and excluding, say, the gospel of Thomas. It would seem that, unless protestants regard Martin Luther as infallible, the only basis for the protestant canon would be the declarations of some early councils and synods. Therefore, protestants must at least implicitly acknowledge the authority of some early   councils. I would appreciate any further comments that folks would like to make.

 

Edited by Jedothek
typo

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William
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3 minutes ago, Jedothek said:

Thanks to everyone for their thought-provoking posts: in addition, I note that I did not make explicit the thought that provoked my question, but I do so now. Protestants tend to claim that they base all doctrine on scripture; but on what basis are the canonical books identified (whether the k j v list, the Vulgate list, whatever)? -- as including, say, John, and excluding, say, the gospel of Thomas. It would seem that, unless protestants regard Martin Luther as infallible, the only basis for the protestant canon would be the declarations of some early councils and synods. Therefore, protestants must at east implicitly acknowledge the authority of some early   councils. I would appreciate any further comments that folks would like to make.

 

 

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