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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.

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37 minutes ago, atpollard said:

23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. [Rev 2:23 KJV]

 

Did we do "reins" yet?

Yes, way back in post 12.

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1 hour ago, Becky said:

image.png.3e32ee402f55b7e295a5233b6f699506.png

 

I'll bet that is about what you were thinking ... 🙂

Yup, pretty much the same.

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Okay, I have one that you may have to look at several modern translations before you can decide. 

 

Neh. 5:13 "Also I shook my lap, and said, So God shake out every man from his house, and from his labour, that performeth not this promise, even thus be he shaken out, and emptied. And all the congregation said, Amen, and praised the LORD. And the people did according to this promise."

 

What does "shook my lap" mean?

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He shook his own self = Cleaned up his act 

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3 hours ago, Becky said:

He shook his own self = Cleaned up his act 

Nope, not even close.

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sheesh

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5 hours ago, deade said:

Okay, I have one that you may have to look at several modern translations before you can decide. 

 

Neh. 5:13 "Also I shook my lap, and said, So God shake out every man from his house, and from his labour, that performeth not this promise, even thus be he shaken out, and emptied. And all the congregation said, Amen, and praised the LORD. And the people did according to this promise."

 

What does "shook my lap" mean?

He took himself out,

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We use the expression to "shake out our lap" to mean that we shook out our lap ... I stood up and brushed the crumbs off my pants (between the knee and belt on the front) and onto the floor.  Then my wife yells "Not on the floor!"

 

So that is what I am going to guess (except his wife might not yell for shaking crumbs onto a dirt floor).

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10 minutes ago, atpollard said:

We use the expression to "shake out our lap" to mean that we shook out our lap ... I stood up and brushed the crumbs off my pants (between the knee and belt on the front) and onto the floor.  Then my wife yells "Not on the floor!"

 

So that is what I am going to guess (except his wife might not yell for shaking crumbs onto a dirt floor).

Well atpollard, you are close enough but it did not imply lap as you think, it meant the fold or the hem of the garment. ESV is a modern one that plainly states that: (also NKJV - NIV)

 

Neh. 5:13 "I also shook out the fold of my garment and said, “So may God shake out every man from his house and from his labor who does not keep this promise. So may he be shaken out and emptied.” And all the assembly said “Amen” and praised the LORD. And the people did as they had promised."

 

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1 hour ago, deade said:

Well atpollard, you are close enough but it did not imply lap as you think, it meant the fold or the hem of the garment. ESV is the only modern one that plainly states that:

 

Neh. 5:13 "I also shook out the fold of my garment and said, “So may God shake out every man from his house and from his labor who does not keep this promise. So may he be shaken out and emptied.” And all the assembly said “Amen” and praised the LORD. And the people did as they had promised."

 

That is not correct nor is the phrase in the KJV an English idiom.

 

In this case the KJV is correct.  It accurately translates the Hebrew.  The Hebrew literally reads "Also I shook out my bosom\lap."

 

Check the note in the ESV (i.e. Hebrew bosom).

WWW.BIBLEGATEWAY.COM

 

Every translation is an interpretation of the Hebrew.

 

"I also shook out the folds of my robe" (NIV)

"I also shook out the fold of my garment" (ESV)

"I also shook out my garment" (NET Bible)

 

Also check out note 27 in the Net Bible (i.e. my bosom).

CLASSIC.NET.BIBLE.ORG

 

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2 hours ago, Origen said:

That is not correct nor is the phrase in the KJV an English idiom.

 

In this case the KJV is correct.  It accurately translates the Hebrew.  The Hebrew literally reads "Also I shook out my bosom\lap."

 

Check the note in the ESV (i.e. Hebrew bosom).

WWW.BIBLEGATEWAY.COM

 

Every translation is an interpretation of the Hebrew.

 

"I also shook out the folds of my robe" (NIV)

"I also shook out the fold of my garment" (ESV)

"I also shook out my garment" (NET Bible)

 

Also check out note 27 in the Net Bible (i.e. my bosom).

CLASSIC.NET.BIBLE.ORG

 

Well you can imagine when I ran across posting it on another forum I was puzzled how someone could shake out their lap. I ran across the ESV version and it makes it appear as an idiom. I still don't see where they came up with folds. My mistake.

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It is a mental image painted with words.  Imagine a man dressed in a tunic and robe common from the time of Abraham thru Christ.  He stands and shakes the garment, flinging whatever was on his lap off its resting place and hurling it through the air.  He then says “So may God shake out every man from his house and from his labor who does not keep this promise. So may he be shaken out and emptied.”

 

It was his lap that was shaken.  It was the folds in his robe that were shaken.  It was his garment that was shaken.

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On 4/2/2019 at 7:28 PM, atpollard said:

It is a mental image painted with words.  Imagine a man dressed in a tunic and robe common from the time of Abraham thru Christ.  He stands and shakes the garment, flinging whatever was on his lap off its resting place and hurling it through the air.  He then says “So may God shake out every man from his house and from his labor who does not keep this promise. So may he be shaken out and emptied.”

 

It was his lap that was shaken.  It was the folds in his robe that were shaken.  It was his garment that was shaken.

There you go.

 

Also note that small personal items were often carried in the fold(s) of long garments, hence the above translations.

 

In either case the idea is the same.  Whatever it was it was shaken out\off the garment\lap.  The symbolism is clear.

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HEY @Origen     how about another  idiom   

image.png.c4bd92b328ab5abe5341000e527c65c0.png

 

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I am very grateful that all of you enjoyed this thread.  I found it to be entertaining, interesting, and informative.  Thanks everyone.

 

The truth is I have just run out of KJV idioms.  I have no doubt there are more but I am not aware of them.  If I come up with any I will post them.  Again, thank you.

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On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 12:33 PM, Origen said:

I am posting this just for fun.  Most of us grew up using (and still do) the KJV.  When quoting a passage out loud from memory almost always, in my case, it is from the KJV.

 

 

 

On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 12:33 PM, Origen said:

 

 

On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 12:33 PM, Origen said:

I am posting this just for fun.  Most of us grew up using (and still do) the KJV.  When quoting a passage out loud from memory almost always, in my case, it is from the KJV.

 

I am going to cite a verse from the KJV.  In that verse is an idiom I will put in bold.  Without any other source other than the KJV itself (do not look at any modern translation that would be cheating) given the meaning of the idiom.  You may check the context of the verse in the KJV.

 

"And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean." (Lev. 15:24)

@Origen Let's not forget that it was laws like this that Christ suffered the cross for . So we would not have to . The laws of God were plentiful and very difficult to obey without some kind of renalty  . We need to thank Jesus for His grace and mercy and fulfilling the laws that we do not have to .

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2 hours ago, Matthew Duvall said:

Let's not forget that it was laws like this that Christ suffered the cross for . So we would not have to .

While it is true that Christ suffered for us on the cross, non-Jews frankly speaking were never at any time required to observe the Mosaic law. The 613 Mitzvot were given exclusively to the Israelites and to those who would convert to Judaism. 

 

 

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Hey guys this is not the thread for theological dissuasions.  This thread is about idioms found in the KJV.

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Okay sorry about my involvement with that. Now back on track(if it is okay here is another idiom

from the KJV:

 

“My bone cleaveth to my skin and to my flesh, and I am escaped with the skin of my teeth.

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6 hours ago, Ben Asher said:

Okay sorry about my involvement with that. Now back on track(if it is okay here is another idiom

from the KJV:

 

“My bone cleaveth to my skin and to my flesh, and I am escaped with the skin of my teeth.

 

Barely escaped.

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Here are a few educated opinions on the meaning of "I am escaped with the skin of my teeth"

Quote

 The only thing that Job has “escaped” from (מלט hithp) is what he has not yet suffered, death. If the phrase is to have any meaning remotely parallel to “my bones hang on my skin and flesh,” i.e., that he feels deprived of vigor, it must mean that the “escape” is not worth having, that it is no real escape at all (as distinct from the common English usage of the phrase, in which it refers to a genuine though narrow escape).

1

Clines, David J. A. Job 1–20. Vol. 17. Dallas: Word, Incorporated, 1998. Word Biblical Commentary.

 

 

Quote

 

Notes for  19:20

50 tn The meaning would be “I am nothing but skin and bones” in current English idiom. Both lines of this verse need attention. The first half seems to say, “My skin and my flesh sticks to my bones.” Some think that this is too long, and that the bones can stick to the skin, or the flesh, but not both. Dhorme proposes “in my skin my flesh has rotted away” (רָקַב, raqav). This involves several changes in the line, however. He then changes the second line to read “and I have gnawed my bone with my teeth” (transferring “bone” from the first half and omitting “skin”). There are numerous other renderings of this; some of the more notable are: “I escape, my bones in my teeth” (Merx); “my teeth fall out” (Duhm); “my teeth fall from my gums” (Pope); “my bones protrude in sharp points” (Kissane). A. B. Davidson retains “the skin of my teeth,” meaning “gums. This is about the last thing that Job has, or he would not be able to speak. For a detailed study of this verse, D. J. A. Clines devotes two full pages of textual notes (Job [WBC], 430–31). He concludes with “My bones hang from my skin and my flesh, I am left with only the skin of my teeth.”

 

4

51 tn Or “I am left.”
52 tn The word “alive” is not in the Hebrew text, but is supplied in the translation for clarity.

Biblical Studies Press. The NET Bible First Edition Notes. Biblical Studies Press, 2006.

 

 

Quote

On the aoristic וָאֶתְמַלְּטָה, vid., on Job 1:15. Stickel has on this passage an excursus on this ah, to which he also attributes, in this addition to the historic tense, the idea of striving after a goal: “I slip away, I escape;” it certainly gives vividness to the notion of the action, if it may not always have the force of direction towards anything. Therefore: with a destroyed flesh, and indeed so completely destroyed that there is even nothing left to him of sound skin except the skin of his teeth, wasted away to a skeleton, and become both to sight and smell a loathsome object;—such is the sufferer the friends have before them,—one who is tortured, besides, by a dark conflict which they only make more severe,—one who now implores them for pity, and because he has no pity to expect from man, presses forward to a hope which reaches beyond the grave.

Keil, Carl Friedrich, and Franz Delitzsch. Commentary on the Old Testament. Vol. 4. Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 1996.

 

 

 

Quote

The fourth problem is that since “teeth” do not have “skin,” what does it mean to escape with (or by) it? One possibility is that Job meant he escaped with nothing (there is no word “only” in the text). Some suggest it may refer to gums (NIV margin, “only my gums”). The phrase “skin of my teeth” is now an entrenched English idiom. Elsewhere Job hinted that he was emaciated (16:8; cf. 33:21), so the best interpretation is one that assumes this verse speaks to that condition. If so, v. 20 goes better with the next section, which has “flesh” in the last line.

 

Alden, Robert L. Job. Vol. 11. Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1993. The New American Commentary.

 

 

Quote

The expression by the skin of my teeth has become proverbial in English, meaning to accomplish something, but just barely. This line may also be expressed, for example, “I have almost died, but not quite,” “Death has almost seized me,” “I have barely escaped death,” or “By only a tiny bit am I still alive.”

 

Reyburn, William David. A Handbook on the Book of Job. New York: United Bible Societies, 1992. UBS Handbook Series.

 

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