Jump to content

The Christian Protestant Community Forums

Sincerely inquiring about the Protestant faith? Welcome to Christforums the Christian Protestant community forums. You'll first need to register in order to join our community. Create or respond to threads on your favorite topics and subjects. Registration takes less than a minute, it's simple, fast, and free! Enjoy the fellowship! God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now

Community Fellowship

John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Knotical

Just to be clear

Recommended Posts

There has become even more disdain for people who are identified as "anti-vaxxers."  They are being blamed for the recent measles outbreaks in the Northwest area of this country.  This is completely unnecessary, and just proves that the media are, again, pushing their own agenda and don't care about the facts.

 

It is actually inaccurate to call someone an "anti-vaxxer", it would be more appropriate to use the term "ex-vaxxer", as people in this group have, most likely, been vaccinated in the past, but in looking into what actually goes into these vaccines that are administered in clinics and hospitals across this country, and many others, they have decided they don't want to inject the poisons that are included in these things.  Do you realize that in many vaccines there are unhealthy amounts of heavy metals?  Including mercury and aluminum, which are neurotoxins.  These are the things that are being looked at as a link to the rise in autism among kids.

 

But, to not go too far down the rabbit-hole on that part of the debate, it should be pointed out that people who are in this group are not completely against vaccinations, or inoculations.  They are simply against being injected with substances that should not be injected into the human body in the first place (heavy metals, aborted fetal tissue, etc...).  There are actually more natural, and safer, ways to become inoculated against certain diseases, that do not have the potential to develop autism, or other neurological disorders.

 

My only point is do the research.  You will be shocked at the amount of coverup, and subterfuge going on in the medical community just to make sure the populous has been "properly vaccinated."

  • Angry 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staff

A big part of me wishes i did not agree with your thoughts. I strongly appose giving vaccinations to very young. 

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely.  There are plenty of vaccines they give to infants that just have no moral justification.  Including the HPV vaccine.  There is no reason for that one.

 

Now the other ones like measles, chicken pox, etc... that are not, necessarily life-threatening (had the chickenpox when I was a kid and I think I am still alive), that can be inoculated against, but naturally.

 

It boggles the mind why the medical establishment would require a vaccine that is for sexually transmitted diseases to be given to kids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staff
30 minutes ago, Knotical said:

It boggles the mind why the medical establishment would require a vaccine that is for sexually transmitted diseases to be given to kids.

No other reason then to promote immorality. There are many things the medical establishment does that individual doctors will not do not promote. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Note: My background is biochem and I have peers who are involved in epidemiology and immunology. I have a son who is a doctor.  

 

I was thinking about how I might knowledgeably defend the use of vaccines to a friend and wanted to get my facts straight.

 

 I can toss out heavy metal fears and autism angst--mostly fear-based, unscientific, anecdotally driven concerns. But regarding aborted fetal tissue, I stumbled. I hear that aborted fetal tissue is not used at all for developing vaccines--just downline cells--so that is OK(?). And then it gets fuzzier yet. I felt uneasy about my confidence, so wanting reputable sites, I went to NIH and WebMD.

 

From NIH:

From WebMD

 

It seems to come down to ethical questions:

 

1. Am I ethically willing to use a vaccine for MMR that was originally (50 years ago) obtained from an electively aborted baby? Why? Why not?

2. Am I ethically willing to support a pharmaceutical industry that is actively and broadly using electively aborted baby tissue to develop and normalize a wide range of new vaccines? Do I have a moral responsibility for benefiting from this evil system differently than any other evil system from which I may knowingly or unknowingly benefit?

3. Is it wrong that the death of a baby, even aborted, can benefit millions? Even if that baby is killed for profit? What if the baby was aborted but no one profits except the ones vaccinated? Where do I draw the line? Why?

 

I don't mean to stir up a hornet's nest, but I am struggling with this question more now than ever and I don't think such decisions should be made lightly. I can see various points of view and wish honor the decision made by my godly children (which is to reluctantly accept vaccines). I also want them to be fully persuaded and not be knowledgeably ignorant and not be fearfully acquiescing. Somehow we need to make an informed decision and with clear, open, assured conscience know we are making the reasonably best choice we can.

 

I am very interested in your thoughts.

Edited by GaoLu
  • Informative 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staff
1 hour ago, GaoLu said:

But regarding aborted fetal tissue, I stumbled. I hear that aborted fetal tissue is not used at all for developing vaccines--just downline cells--so that is OK(?).

Read the same thing around 9-10 years ago. Has any new medical breakthroughs come about since then from aborted babies?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, GaoLu said:

Note: My background is biochem and I have peers who are involved in epidemiology and immunology. I have a son who is a doctor.  

 

I was thinking about how I might knowledgeably defend the use of vaccines to a friend and wanted to get my facts straight.

 

 I can toss out heavy metal fears and autism angst--mostly fear-based, unscientific, anecdotally driven concerns. But regarding aborted fetal tissue, I stumbled. I hear that aborted fetal tissue is not used at all for developing vaccines--just downline cells--so that is OK(?). And then it gets fuzzier yet. I felt uneasy about my confidence, so wanting reputable sites, I went to NIH and WebMD.

 

From NIH:

From WebMD

 

It seems to come down to ethical questions:

 

1. Am I ethically willing to use a vaccine for MMR that was originally (50 years ago) obtained from an electively aborted baby? Why? Why not?

2. Am I ethically willing to support a pharmaceutical industry that is actively and broadly using electively aborted baby tissue to develop and normalize a wide range of new vaccines? Do I have a moral responsibility for benefiting from this evil system differently than any other evil system from which I may knowingly or unknowingly benefit?

3. Is it wrong that the death of a baby, even aborted, can benefit millions? Even if that baby is killed for profit? What if the baby was aborted but no one profits except the ones vaccinated? Where do I draw the line? Why?

 

I don't mean to stir up a hornet's nest, but I am struggling with this question more now than ever and I don't think such decisions should be made lightly. I can see various points of view and wish honor the decision made by my godly children (which is to reluctantly accept vaccines). I also want them to be fully persuaded and not be knowledgeably ignorant and not be fearfully acquiescing. Somehow we need to make an informed decision and with clear, open, assured conscience know we are making the reasonably best choice we can.

 

I am very interested in your thoughts.

Have you tested any vaccines for heavy metals yourself?  Just relying on statements put out by mainstream health websites does not, necessarily, refute the reports that heavy metals are found in vaccines.  There have been plenty of independent studies done that show that there are extremely unsafe levels of heavy metals in vaccines.  Some that are given to children have enough heavy metals that would still be unsafe for a 500-pound man.  Many pediatricians know this and are still pushing vaccines on the unwitting public.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Knotical said:

Have you tested any vaccines for heavy metals yourself?  Just relying on statements put out by mainstream health websites does not, necessarily, refute the reports that heavy metals are found in vaccines.  There have been plenty of independent studies done that show that there are extremely unsafe levels of heavy metals in vaccines.  Some that are given to children have enough heavy metals that would still be unsafe for a 500-pound man.  Many pediatricians know this and are still pushing vaccines on the unwitting public.

 

People sometimes misunderstand labels.  As you know Chlorine gas can be lethal.  Sodium in the presence of open air may burst into a violent explosion of flame. That is something you might NOT want to eat, especially together at the same time!  Yet you do so every day. Sodium chloride, NaCl, is common table salt. When combined, sodium and chlorine are quite tasty! 

 

The same thing happens with vaccine formulations. Take an element by itself and you have trouble. Combine it with something else and it is completely safe and perhaps even tasty.  Many allegations about vaccine risks that I have seen are based on that kind of lack of understanding.

 

Perhaps you already understood all that and I share some of your concerns. Can you share what you have learned: what heavy metals still concern you and in what quantities and formulations?   

Edited by GaoLu
  • Informative 2
  • Best Answer 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 7:35 AM, Knotical said:

There has become even more disdain for people who are identified as "anti-vaxxers."  They are being blamed for the recent measles outbreaks in the Northwest area of this country.  This is completely unnecessary, and just proves that the media are, again, pushing their own agenda and don't care about the facts.

 

It is actually inaccurate to call someone an "anti-vaxxer", it would be more appropriate to use the term "ex-vaxxer", as people in this group have, most likely, been vaccinated in the past, but in looking into what actually goes into these vaccines that are administered in clinics and hospitals across this country, and many others, they have decided they don't want to inject the poisons that are included in these things.  Do you realize that in many vaccines there are unhealthy amounts of heavy metals?  Including mercury and aluminum, which are neurotoxins.  These are the things that are being looked at as a link to the rise in autism among kids.

 

But, to not go too far down the rabbit-hole on that part of the debate, it should be pointed out that people who are in this group are not completely against vaccinations, or inoculations.  They are simply against being injected with substances that should not be injected into the human body in the first place (heavy metals, aborted fetal tissue, etc...).  There are actually more natural, and safer, ways to become inoculated against certain diseases, that do not have the potential to develop autism, or other neurological disorders.

 

My only point is do the research.  You will be shocked at the amount of coverup, and subterfuge going on in the medical community just to make sure the populous has been "properly vaccinated."

We no longer get fair media coverage of important news . We now have to settle for propaganda ! Sad,,,,,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/3/2019 at 4:31 PM, GaoLu said:

 

People sometimes misunderstand labels.  As you know Chlorine gas can be lethal.  Sodium in the presence of open air may burst into a violent explosion of flame. That is something you might NOT want to eat, especially together at the same time!  Yet you do so every day. Sodium chloride, NaCl, is common table salt. When combined, sodium and chlorine are quite tasty! 

 

The same thing happens with vaccine formulations. Take an element by itself and you have trouble. Combine it with something else and it is completely safe and perhaps even tasty.  Many allegations about vaccine risks that I have seen are based on that kind of lack of understanding.

 

Perhaps you already understood all that and I share some of your concerns. Can you share what you have learned: what heavy metals still concern you and in what quantities and formulations?   

There shouldn't be any level of heavy metals in something that we either ingest or inject into our bodies.  There are safer ways to inoculate against diseases.  The other thing that the pharmaceutical companies either are ignoring, or refuse to research is how bad it is to include multiple vaccines into one shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staff
42 minutes ago, Knotical said:

There shouldn't be any level of heavy metals in something that we either ingest or inject into our bodies.  There are safer ways to inoculate against diseases.  The other thing that the pharmaceutical companies either are ignoring, or refuse to research is how bad it is to include multiple vaccines into one shot.

Compared to? I remember standing in line and having some 20+ immunizations done.

 

637270367_MultipleShots.jpg.fa47492d977f3ce54d147f767cb74cc0.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, William said:

Compared to? I remember standing in line and having some 20+ immunizations done.

 

637270367_MultipleShots.jpg.fa47492d977f3ce54d147f767cb74cc0.jpg

 

You are just fortunate you did not have any adverse reactions to the ones you were given.  When you look at the numbers of vaccine reactions to those where people actually contracted a disease that we are supposedly vaccinated against, they are staggering.  Just look at the "outbreak" of measles.  We have a few dozen people in the Northwest area that have contracted the disease, but if you look at the numbers of people from 2010 who received the measles vaccine there were 89,355 reported cases of vaccine reactions, including disabilities, hospitalizations, and even deaths.

 

Comparatively, measles is not deadly, the vaccine is.  

 

Here is just one source: healthfreedomidaho.org/measles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Knotical said:

There shouldn't be any level of heavy metals in something that we either ingest or inject into our bodies.  There are safer ways to inoculate against diseases.  

 

You are so right, that there shouldn't be any [toxic] levels of heavy metals--we want a level, but we want a very, very low level. Vaccines are incredibly pure and free of heavy metals as far as I know.  I believe that vaccines are likely more pure from heavy metals than the water you may drink, the dust in your house you breathe and the household products you touch (and ingest through food, etc.). Please let me know if you have learned otherwise.   I am not sure there are currently much safer ways to vaccinate. 

 

I think parents should be informed and comfortable making immunization choices--especially regarding timing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, GaoLu said:

You are so right, that there shouldn't be any [toxic] levels of heavy metals--we want a level, but we want a very, very low level. Vaccines are incredibly pure and free of heavy metals as far as I know.  I believe that vaccines are likely more pure from heavy metals than the water you may drink, the dust in your house you breathe and the household products you touch (and ingest through food, etc.). Please let me know if you have learned otherwise.   I am not sure there are currently much safer ways to vaccinate. 

 

I think parents should be informed and comfortable making immunization choices--especially regarding timing. 

In reality many vaccines have more heavy metals than is safe for even a 500 pound man.  And this is talking about vaccines that are given to children under the age of 3.  This is why so many children develop neurological disorders.

 

In many people's view, zero heavy metals should be used in vaccines, and is completely possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Knotical said:

In many people's view, zero heavy metals should be used in vaccines, and is completely possible.

1

No heavy metals are used in vaccines.  Any trace amounts, if detectable, are less than in the food a child eats, even less than in a nursing mother's milk.   Ensuring absolutely no trace upon injection is chemically and physically impossible as a certain amount is already persistent in every human including the smallest baby for natural reasons. However, these natural levels are far from toxic.  

  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, GaoLu said:

No heavy metals are used in vaccines.  Any trace amounts, if detectable, are less than in the food a child eats, even less than in a nursing mother's milk.   Ensuring absolutely no trace upon injection is chemically and physically impossible as a certain amount is already persistent in every human including the smallest baby for natural reasons. However, these natural levels are far from toxic.  

You may want to look into this a bit more.  The truth is heavy metals are used in vaccines.  The purpose, that has been reported, is to stimulate the immune system, but the levels of heavy metals is well above anything that is considered safe for human consumption.

 

Of course there are safe levels, as anyone who eats fish is going to get some mercury, but vaccines are way more heavy metals that what you might get naturally in the foods you eat.  The CDC has this information.  It is also included in the documentation that comes with the vaccines from the manufacturer as to what is included in the vaccine.  The only thing is the general populous doesn't see this information unless they specifically ask for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staff
42 minutes ago, Malta Dan said:
INFO.CMSRI.ORG

Every One of 43 Human Vaccines Tested Was Contaminated by...

 

 

VAXOPEDIA.ORG

The Children’s Medical Safety Research Institute, through the Dwoskin Family Foundation, funds the work of many scientists that are said to be anti-vaccine, which can then used by the anti-vaccine movement to scare...

 

WWW.CDC.GOV

CDC's Vaccine Safety website. Resources and information about the safety of specific vaccines, vaccine side effects, and vaccine safety research.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Knotical said:

You may want to look into this a bit more.  The truth is heavy metals are used in vaccines.  The purpose, that has been reported, is to stimulate the immune system, but the levels of heavy metals is well above anything that is considered safe for human consumption.

 

Of course there are safe levels, as anyone who eats fish is going to get some mercury, but vaccines are way more heavy metals that what you might get naturally in the foods you eat.  The CDC has this information.  It is also included in the documentation that comes with the vaccines from the manufacturer as to what is included in the vaccine.  The only thing is the general populous doesn't see this information unless they specifically ask for it.

You are thinking well.  Let me add some information that may be helpful.

 

Take Aluminum--the most commonly used "metal" used in vaccines, which in extremely small amounts stimulates the immune system so that very little deactivated vaccine protein is needed to make a vaccine effective. First, common sense should tell you Aluminum is anything but "heavy metal."  Secondly, pharmacists don't add little metal shavings to a bottle (you likely knew that!).  Instead, compounds containing the element Al (Aluminum) are created to do the job. The compounds used are amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate (AAHS), aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, and potassium aluminum sulfate (Alum). These are non-toxic.  It is true that a few potentially harmful Al ions could become free, but only in trace amounts far below those naturally occurring. 

 

Mercury compounds used in vaccines are formed the same way.  Thimerosal, ethylmercury is the form of mercury used in some vaccines is non-toxic, unrelated in any way to autism, and has nothing to do with methylmercury--a potentially harmful compound found in some fish. Why people conflate the two is understandable and unfortunate.

 

These compounds do not form toxins, just like NaCl (salt) does not form a toxin in edible doses, even though it is constructed of elements (including extremely toxic Chlorine and violently flammable Sodium) that are potentially fatally toxic.  We don't eat salt in toxic forms and we don't take vaccines in toxic forms.  Data you have read contrary to that is sensational/emotional misinformation. I hesitate to say deliberately so, but sometimes the purpose of such misinformation seems to be more diabolical than excusable ignorance. While ignorance has a ready remedy, diabolical intent is more difficult to fix.

 

I understand the drama people feel when they don't understand basic chemistry, but people who have any chemistry background do understand this.  Why a few doctors here and there prey on patients' lack of knowledge we can only surmise, but tracing some economic benefit is usually easy to do--probably they have a book to sell. Research-studies statements are sometimes cherry-picked, torn from context and intent, and distorted to say something the researcher never intended. 

 

I hope something here helps. 

Edited by GaoLu
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/5/2019 at 6:31 PM, Knotical said:

In reality many vaccines have more heavy metals than is safe for even a 500 pound man.  And this is talking about vaccines that are given to children under the age of 3.  This is why so many children develop neurological disorders.

 

In many people's view, zero heavy metals should be used in vaccines, and is completely possible.

Based on what? Where are you getting this info?

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For my dime's worth. I feel those who risk giving other people and children their serious diseases because they refuse vaccinate  their children, they are so ignorant and foolish!    

 

IMO its pure hogwash that these vaccines are unsafe. If one child dies because their parents so foolishly believed the lies about chemicals being in the vaccines, they should be brought up on child in child endangerment as well child neglect.

 

Each and every child of ours was vaccinated. I did not receive the Mumps or Measles and not I am getting these vaccines next week, if the vaccines are available.

 

The risk of dieing from the Chicken pox vaccine is far less than the problems it creates for older adults. The US had all but destroyed the measles, but thanks to these ignorant foolish people we now have a large out brake.  

 

 

  

  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is interesting how some of you have bought into the fearmongering the medical establishment has created surrounding not being vaccinated.  40+ years ago it was completely normal for there to be well over a thousand cases of reported measles, where the actual number of people who died from it was minuscule.  But, now that we suddenly have an "outbreak" of a few dozen we should panic and blame those who do not vaccinate for this problem.

 

As I mentioned, there are safer ways to be inoculated than relying on the unsafe, chemically synthesized, solutions that do more harm than good to our immune systems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Knotical. As a nation we have to bare in mind what is best for the health of the greater number of people. Unfortunately there are those who feel that vaccinations pose a risk and do not vaccinate their children, What seems like a double standard to me is often parents have been vaccinated but feel its wrong for their children.

 

We have a seat belt law in every state, but a few disobey the law and justify not using seat belts because they feel  in case of being trapped in some kind of freak accident wher they could be trapped. That happens so very seldom, by they feel the risk is worth the benefit, even disobeying the law. Not vaccinating children is not putting you ar risk at all if you got vaccinated as a child, it puts their life at risk and they have no say about your choice. IMO that is not only putting the child at risk but is a foolish thing to do.

 

Not vaccination a child puts them at risk as well as all the children who also were unwise in not vaccinating their children. So very sad!

nly

  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Explain to me how a child who has been vaccinated is at risk when they come into contact with a child who has not been vaccinated?  The whole purpose, ideally, of vaccinations is to make an individual more immune than usual against whatever disease for which they received the vaccine.  Now, fundamentally, if we have two children who are exposed to a disease.  One is vaccinated against it and the other not.  Logic should tell us that the child who received the vaccination will be less likely to be affected by the disease as they should be more immune to it than the child who did not receive the vaccine.

 

This is the fallacy of blaming people who have not been vaccinated for a supposed epidemic/pandemic.

 

The reality, which is accessible from the CDC, is that there are far more individuals who have adverse reactions to vaccines (disabilities, death, etc...), than those who actually contracted diseases for which there are vaccines.

 

The reason people are having adverse reactions is because many vaccines are given together, MMR (mumps, measles, rubella) is just one example where the different vaccines were never tested against each other for possible problems when administered together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Knotical. In my post is said if a child that was unvaccinated that got say chickenpox, came into another unvaccinated child that puts both at risk for shingles as an adult. Not being vaccinated exposes all children whose parents made a foolish choice to put their child at risk, IMO.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...