Jump to content

The Christian Protestant Community Forums

Sincerely inquiring about the Protestant faith? Welcome to Christforums the Christian Protestant community forums. You'll first need to register in order to join our community. Create or respond to threads on your favorite topics and subjects. Registration takes less than a minute, it's simple, fast, and free! Enjoy the fellowship! God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now

Community Fellowship

John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Support

Church Removes Pastor for Sign Declaring Homesexuality a Sin, Bruce Jenner a Man

Recommended Posts

What did this pastor expect to happen in California?

Is it wise to trigger obvious negative publicity?

Most people think it means Christians should condemn homosexuals, rather than homosexuality and the accompanying acts and lifestyle in particular.

So thank you pastor, for fuelling the hate towards Christians some more...

 

It's not even that hard to explain why God doesn't approve of it yet doesn't hate sinners.

Edited by Hieronymus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staff
3 hours ago, Hieronymus said:

What did this pastor expect to happen in California?

Is it wise to trigger obvious negative publicity?

Most people think it means Christians should condemn homosexuals, rather than homosexuality and the accompanying acts and lifestyle in particular.

So thank you pastor, for fuelling the hate towards Christians some more...

 

It's not even that hard to explain why God doesn't approve of it yet doesn't hate sinners.

Are you suggesting that Pastors should water down the word of God?

 

Where do you get that God doesn't hate sinners? Question, are unredeemed sinners in Hell or the sinner's sins?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staff
5 hours ago, Lis Ann said:

People do not want to hear the truth anymore. They are going against God's word. They are believing the lies of satan

Right, they'd rather be supported than face the reality of an issue. We should not support people's delusions especially when they are no longer only self-mutilating themselves but also others such as children.

 

The threat of Hell should bring about some urgency rather than watering the word down so as to not offend by it.

 

The cross brings a remedy, look upon it and God's sacrifice, believe and live! Unfortunately, people today are disassociating "whosoever" from the context and falsely providing relief to the reprobate. The atonement and propitiation applies to believers, and the doctrine of Hell should motivate believers to reach out in Evangelism rather than neutralizing the threat so that the reprobate may enjoy the World.

 

The Pastor clearly pointed out a characteristically flawed World. Truth changes according to moral relativism. What an individual or society deems as morally correct today has and will change from one to another or from the past to the future, however, God's word is absolute and never changes. Scripture has application in the World today. We ought be a beacon or lighthouse which warns the coming ships of peril. The only way to do that is to oppose the World but loving the Worldly enough by warning them against clear and apparent dangers.

 

God gave us His word to be a light on our path. The light of the word shows us the way of the World or its reality.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staff
4 hours ago, Hieronymus said:

What did this pastor expect to happen in California?

Is it wise to trigger obvious negative publicity?

Most people think it means Christians should condemn homosexuals, rather than homosexuality and the accompanying acts and lifestyle in particular.

So thank you pastor, for fuelling the hate towards Christians some more...

 

It's not even that hard to explain why God doesn't approve of it yet doesn't hate sinners.

The above post shows to me ,just my opinion, why we are in the state we are in.  Why are sex sins to be seemly accepted ? The Church should have stood strong against divorce.  Church should have spoken out against abortion . Lets just be nice 🙂 Why not do the same for murder ?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staff
17 minutes ago, Becky said:

The Church should have stood strong against divorce.

No fault divorce is completely unchristian. In the Christian marriage the husband is responsible for everything, but husband and wife are both individually accountable to God. No fault divorce was one of the first laws adopted by states which created a slippery slope. The husband doesn't like the way the wife cooks, therefore the husband divorces. What kinda message does that ingrain in our children? The marriage union becomes expendable as well as our spouse, let alone the father and mother roles are diminished. The habitual pattern of behavior is handed down from one generation to another to only repeat and worsen. Clearly a reflection of our society when two people can vow and enter into a covenant before God and break it without any legal repercussions when at fault.
 

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, William said:

Are you suggesting that Pastors should water down the word of God?

 

Where do you get that God doesn't hate sinners? Question, are unredeemed sinners in Hell or the sinner's sins?

 No, i'm suggesting he be careful.

No gay person will repent when you do it like that.

They may repent once they discover and acknowledge YHWH is God and John 3:16.

 

Gee, where did i get that idea...

Maybe something about dying on the cross to save us, and paying for all the sins of the world?

 

Define Hell.

Do you mean Sheol or the lake of Fire (2nd death)?

 

 

Edited by Hieronymus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Becky said:

The above post shows to me ,just my opinion, why we are in the state we are in.  Why are sex sins to be seemly accepted ? The Church should have stood strong against divorce.  Church should have spoken out against abortion . Lets just be nice 🙂 Why not do the same for murder ?  

I think you're missing the point too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staff

In your opinion is Bruce a man ?

Is the homosexual act  sin? 

Do you also believe is soft soaping other crimes against God's Word? 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staff

Both the passages here are the Word of God.

 

Rom 1:25  Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 
Rom 1:26  For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 
Rom 1:27  And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 
Rom 1:28  And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 
Rom 1:29  Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 
Rom 1:30  Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 
Rom 1:31  Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 
Rom 1:32  Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. 

 

 

Joh 3:15  That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 
Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 
Joh 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 
Joh 3:18  He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 
Joh 3:19  And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 
Joh 3:20  For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 
Joh 3:21  But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few things hit me as I read this one it happened in CA, there is no surprise here. CA is getting harder for Christians to state openly what is a sin, and this pastor was open and factual that what he said is truth according toe the Bible. What was deeply sad was the church did not stand with their pastor. This church does not deserve that pastor.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staff
2 hours ago, Becky said:

In your opinion is Bruce a man ?

Is the homosexual act  sin? 

Do you also believe is soft soaping other crimes against God's Word? 

 

 

I think he believes that if an evangelist is nice and avoids the condemnation against sinners that it'll be construed as love. Perhaps such an act might go down as a greater act of love by God than the cross which reprobate reject? It isn't what you say, Becky, it is how you say it. Not bringing enough to confession, repentance, and faith? Try not to point out the sin which made the cross necessary and try to be nicer! Nobody likes to be around negative people Becky!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am curious as to what denomination this church is a part of.  Quite honestly the leadership in this church went the wrong direction.  If they have members that have a problem with biblical truths then it is possible they are merely sunday morning christians and needed a good dose of biblical truth regardless of the backlash from the surrounding culture.  That being said, I wonder and at the wisdom of the pastor putting that kind of a message on the church's sign.  It is one thing to preach truth from the pulpit, where those that should be seeking to live Godly lives can be edified, it is completely another to basically drape pearls from the sign so that the swine of the culture make their usual noises.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know where you're coming from, of course.

But it seems a bit as if some of you have already made up your minds and passed judgement on me.

And that's somewhat illustrative of the whole problem i.m.h.o.

 

GOD saves sinners.

We ALL fall short, not only gays and people who divorce etc...

So how, with LOVE, are we as Christians supposed to get the Truth across?

And love (Agape) is not just "being nice", of course.

But it's not scaring people away from the Truth either.

It's not forcing them to submit to God out of fear of hell or 2nd death or which ever ifea you have about the wages of sin.

 

But there's more to consider.

Apart from the craziness of the LBGT propaganda and their Godless ollowers,

At a certain point in life you discover what makes your hormones do their thing.

There is a minority of people who discover they are a minority, in this case being sexually and probably also mentally attracted to people of the same sex.

This in and of itself ought not be a barrier to believe and put your trust in God.

Having discovered you are homosexual is also not the same as being a Sodomite.

It's also not the same as being a part of the gay scene, and having many bed partners.

 

All people fall short of the Glory of God and are lost without Salvation.

Jesus Christ is our Righteousness.

 

So, how do we go about this then?

I'm not always sure.

What i do when discussing these things with unbelievers is explain why things are an abomination to God.

In this case, there are a bunch of good arguments you can put forward.

Biology, hygene, STD's and how God intended things overall, are easy to explain.

It should also be pointed out that heterosexuals can cross the line just as easily in their sexual behaviour.

 

Once a person is convinced of God's will and intentions, that person has to choose for him / herself what to do with their own behaviour.

 

So i plea for a constructive approach rather than a destructive approach.

It's very easy to condemn and judge.

It's a challenge to open people's eyes to the Truth and the goodness of God.

Once you understand what holiness is, you undestand that you are not holy and in need of God's Grace.

This will make us humble, put aside our pride and makes us WANT to repent.

 

Anyway, this is how i look at it.

 

 

 

Edited by Hieronymus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staff

What did the sign say that was not Biblical? 

1 hour ago, Knotical said:

I am curious as to what denomination this church is a part of.  Quite honestly the leadership in this church went the wrong direction.  If they have members that have a problem with biblical truths then it is possible they are merely sunday morning christians and needed a good dose of biblical truth regardless of the backlash from the surrounding culture.  That being said, I wonder and at the wisdom of the pastor putting that kind of a message on the church's sign.  It is one thing to preach truth from the pulpit, where those that should be seeking to live Godly lives can be edified, it is completely another to basically drape pearls from the sign so that the swine of the culture make their usual noises.

The sign condemned no one. It stated Biblical Truths . also a biological truth.  God is not a teddybear. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Just Mike said:

Bruce Jenner is a castrated man, who is involved in homosexuality. No matter what he wares he is still a man.

Yes, i agree.

Transgenderism is utter craziness.

It doesn't even take away the gender dysphoria, because you'll never be the other gender in full, and many of them have serious regrets.

High depression and suicide rates.

It's all very saddening..

But when, as a Christian, you go about condemning people over it, only less people will be willing to hear why these modern day abominations are indeed the wrong thing to follow.

Luckily there are plenty examples of wrongs to refer to to make your point clear.

But you'll find many people simply decide that they will follow their carnal hearts.

And they're free to do so too.

 

Edited by Hieronymus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staff

I fail to see where speaking the Word of God is being destructive . 

 

There are churches all over the place accepting unrepetitive sinners as clergy as well as pew setters .  The real Christians need to speak up  are we are part of their sin.  A gang of sinners will not change God's Word. That small city will soon be over run. 

 

I hope and pray there are men willing to stand for God . Northern California will soon be as full of evil as the Bay Area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staff
6 minutes ago, Hieronymus said:

Yes, i agree.

Transgenderism is utter craziness.

It doesn't even take away the gender dysphoria, because you'll never be the other gender in full, and many of them have serious regrets.

But when, as a Christian, you go about condemning people over it, only less people will be willing to hear why these modern day abominations are indeed the wrong thing to follow.

Luckily there are plenty examples of wrongs to refer to to make your point clear.

But you'll find many people simply decide that they will follow their carnal hearts.

And they're free to do so too.

 

Yet the Christian should not be free to share the Word the Whole Word?  The Sign condemned no one . It simply stated a few facts. 

 

Transgenderism is utter craziness.  Is it sinful in your opinion? or just craziness? 

 

Hoke had posted a sign in front of the church that read: “Bruce Jenner is still a man. Homosexuality is still sin. The culture may change. The Bible does not.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Becky said:

I fail to see where speaking the Word of God is being destructive 

When you do it with arogance, hate, anger and judgement you're doing it wrong.

The Bible says this too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staff

1Sa 8:5  And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. 
1Sa 8:6  But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD. 
1Sa 8:7  And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. 
1Sa 8:8  According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Becky said:

What did the sign say that was not Biblical? 

The sign condemned no one. It stated Biblical Truths . also a biological truth.  God is not a teddybear. 

I didn't say it wasn't biblical, I was merely highlighting who the majority of the people that view the sign are.  Pearls before swine, basically.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Staff
2 minutes ago, Hieronymus said:

When you do it with arogance, hate, anger and judgement you're doing it wrong.

The Bible says this too.

I do not read arrogance , hate anger and judgement in that sign . I sure do in you opinion of that sign. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...