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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Michael

Works Righteousness

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The one unifying doctrine of the Christian community in all its many divisions is the doctrine of the "free" gift of grace through faith for salvation. However, Paul describes himself in Philippians and Corinthians as running, fighting, beating his body, and in fear of being disqualified. So either the Bible contradicts itself or the Christian community has made a serious error in how they interpret and teach the gospel. Either way, it's an incredible new revelation for either the world, or the church, and perhaps both. 

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19 minutes ago, Michael said:

The one unifying doctrine of the Christian community in all its many divisions is the doctrine of the "free" gift of grace through faith for salvation. However, Paul describes himself in Philippians and Corinthians as running, fighting, beating his body, and in fear of being disqualified. So either the Bible contradicts itself or the Christian community has made a serious error in how they interpret and teach the gospel. Either way, it's an incredible new revelation for either the world, or the church, and perhaps both. 

Please provide the verses in which you are taking issue with. 

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@Michael1Corinthians 9:24, Philippians 3:12-14 to name two, in any event, if the doctrine of Grace is a free gift; why would it be nearly impossible for a rich Christian to be in the kingdom? 

Edited by Michael

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10 minutes ago, Michael said:

@Michael1Corinthians 9:24, Philippians 3:12-14 to name two, in any event, if the doctrine of Grace is a free gift; why would it be nearly impossible for a Christian to be in the kingdom? 

Not nearly impossible for a Christian but indeed impossible for the natural man and necessary for the Christian.

 

The natural man is totally depraved and incapable of pleasing God.

 

Lemme stop and direct you here:

 

This page should answer your question thoroughly.

 

If you have any questions please feel free to ask.

 

Regarding your verses they are covered in the doctrine of Perseverance of the saints.

 

10 minutes ago, Michael said:

@Michael1Corinthians 9:24, Philippians 3:12-14 to name two, in any event, if the doctrine of Grace is a free gift; why would it be nearly impossible for a rich Christian to be in the kingdom? 

When you say rich are you referring to the teaching conveyed in the story of the rich young ruler? I am asking for clarification because Mark 10:17-22 wasn't one of the verses in question.

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@Michael The scripture in Mark is an add on to my original question. I agree "unifying" was a bad choice of words, so let's agree that salvation by the free gift of grace is the one doctrine most of the Christian community has in common. Paul, (the apostle most associated with the doctrine of Grace through faith) either contradicts himself, or the Christian community has made a serious error in how it has interpreted the gospel, for hundreds of years. Jesus also indirectly refers to "works"when he states it's nearly impossible for a rich man (could be a Christian) to enter the kingdom.

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3 hours ago, Michael said:

@Michael The scripture in Mark is an add on to my original question. I agree "unifying" was a bad choice of words, so let's agree that salvation by the free gift of grace is the one doctrine most of the Christian community has in common. Paul, (the apostle most associated with the doctrine of Grace through faith) either contradicts himself, or the Christian community has made a serious error in how it has interpreted the gospel, for hundreds of years. Jesus also indirectly refers to "works"when he states it's nearly impossible for a rich man (could be a Christian) to enter the kingdom.

The rich young ruler exhibited idolatry. The young man thought he could please God and obtain righteousness by the works of the Law but he contradicted himself because he did not keep the Law:

 

Deuteronomy 6:5, “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might."

 

Jesus emphasized this law immediately after in Matthew 22:37. The young man put "things" or materialism before God.

 

You keep saying that Protestants or the apostle Paul contradicts yet you're are not offering any evidence.

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5 hours ago, Michael said:

The one unifying doctrine of the Christian community in all its many divisions is the doctrine of the "free" gift of grace through faith for salvation. However, Paul describes himself in Philippians and Corinthians as running, fighting, beating his body, and in fear of being disqualified. So either the Bible contradicts itself or the Christian community has made a serious error in how they interpret and teach the gospel. Either way, it's an incredible new revelation for either the world, or the church, and perhaps both. 

1Co 9:24  Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 

 

Php 3:12  Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 
Php 3:13  Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 
Php 3:14  I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 
 

 

I sure dont read these verses as violent as you do. Nor do i see any contradictions.  

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I don't see them as "violent", but they are scriptures which indicate that Paul was running, beating his body, afraid of being "disqualified" for his salvation. That is a doctrine of works for salvation! So I say again, the Bible either contradicts itself on an issue of central importance (salvation by Grace through faith) or the Christian community has made a serious error in how they interpret and teach the gospel.

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I am familiar with the doctrine of the free gift of unmerited grace pervasive in the Christian community. Let's say that I am a homosexual. I have been baptized by submersion, and received Christ as my Savior. However, after a few years I started a Bi-sexual lifestyle cheating on my wife, and then I died suddenly. If there are no "works" to salvation, I have no problem getting into heaven; right?

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20 minutes ago, Michael said:

I have no problem getting into heaven; right?

 

 Not sure, for only the Lord knows who are truly His (2 Timothy 2:19).

 

 This person may not have been saved to begin with (1 Corinthians 6:9; 1 John 2:19) or if he/she was saved the Lord had this person die for brining shame to His Name (1 Corinthians 5:5).

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Ultimately only God truly knows the disposition of your salvation, however, if you are willingly living a sinful lifestyle then it is possible you never received salvation in the first place.  Without saying specifically that you are or are not saved, your actions and fruits will speak volumes toward answering this question.

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15 minutes ago, Michael said:

 If there are no "works" to salvation, I have no problem getting into heaven; right?

There is definitely a connection between salvation and works.  Salvation is a gift from God and our works have nothing to do with receiving it, but one who is saved is born again with a new nature that wants to obey God and can't go back to a lifestyle of sin.  A professing Christian who does this shows that he was never saved in the first place.  A Christian might fall into an act of sin but God won't allow him to continue in it.  Look at what happened to David after he committed adultery with Bathsheba and had her husband murdered.

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1 hour ago, Michael said:

That is a doctrine of works for salvation!

No, that is a doctrine of serving Christ after we are saved.  In order to understand it better I suggest you read 1 Corinthians 3:10-15.

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1 hour ago, Michael said:

scriptures which indicate that Paul was running, beating his body, afraid of being "disqualified" for his salvation. That is a doctrine of works for salvation! 

 1 Corinthians 9:27

 I think it is important to read all of chapter 9. In it Paul is defending his office of apostleship which some denied (1 Corinthians 9:1-2f.) He goes on to discuss what he does and is willing to do for the cause of preaching the gospel. In terms of the disqualification mentioned in 9:27 it does not refer to loss of salvation based on works but rather in him diligently persevering in preaching the gospel. Furthermore, all believers are to discipline/train their bodies for the purpose of righteousness (1 Timothy 4:7). The same holds true for running the race of faith (Hebrews 12:1). 

 A Christian is to work out their salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). Notice that it doesn't say work for your salvation with fear and trembling.

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However we can not have our doctrine both ways. Either salvation is a FREE gift of God, Or there are works of righteousness required to "maintain" salvation  (I doubt seriously that one would go to the trouble to be baptized by submersion if he were not serious about his belief in the Christ), Or the third possibility, the Christian community has misinterpreted the gospel.

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No one said that works of righteousness were required.  Works of righteousness are a demonstration that we have salvation, not a requirement of it.  It goes to the fruits of the Spirit.  If we are demonstrating the fruits of the Spirit willingly and without prompting it is an outward sign of our salvation.

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19 minutes ago, Michael said:

However we can not have our doctrine both ways. Either salvation is a FREE gift of God, Or there are works of righteousness required to "maintain" salvation  (I doubt seriously that one would go to the trouble to be baptized by submersion if he were not serious about his belief in the Christ), Or the third possibility, the Christian community has misinterpreted the gospel.

The game you are playing shows how insincere you are 

 

Gal_6:7  Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 
 

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TO Knotical: John 3:16 / Romans 10:8-10. If I am not mistaken, one has to confess Jesus at his baptism. Salvation by faith is our free gift, and the doctrine being taught in most of Christianity. However, the definition for sanctification in Webster's is:  The process of growing in the Divine Grace of God as a result of our commitment at baptism or conversion. So is salvation achieved through works! It can't be if it is a free gift. Clearly; the Bible either contradicts itself on an issue of central importance or the Christian community has misinterpreted the Bible.

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So what you are saying Knotical, is that we can do whatever we please. Murder, rape, and steal..of course not, but that is where your logic leads.

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7 hours ago, Michael said:

So what you are saying Knotical, is that we can do whatever we please. Murder, rape, and steal..of course not, but that is where your logic leads.

A Christian will be running the race to the high calling as exampled by ... 

Php_3:14  I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

 

 

 

 

 

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Michael, there are sinful life styles that simply put prove a person is not FOLLOWER of Jesus Christ. We are called to repentance when coming to be a Follower of Christ Jesus. T A new believer will want to please God, and allow the Holy Spirit to convict them of sin in their life. If a person has no guilt over sin, then they do not have the Holy Spirit in their life, thus they have not become BORN AGAIN. Adultery, homosexuality are forgivable sins, but NOT as a habitual lifestyle. These sins are clearly addressed in Romans 1, and a person should be very careful in assuming they can live an immoral life and still think they have any part of Jesus Christs Gift of Grace and Mercy say nothing of Salvation. Most assuredly those who continue to believe homosexuality and adultery have anything to being Holy unto God have been taken captive by Satan's lies, and will be facing ethenity in Hell for eternity. It is a very serious mistake to think the person you discribe has any part of Jesus Christ or heaven.

 

Michael even suggesting what you have says volumes about your not understanding what becoming a FOLLOWER of Christ is. Do you need help in understanding what this means?

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Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,[2] 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nordrunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

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John 1:14

NIV 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

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6 hours ago, Becky said:

A Christian will be running the race to the high calling as exampled by ... 

Php_3:14  I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 I think it is an attempt to sow discord among brethren (Proverbs 6:19, KJV).

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