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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
erealmz

Becoming Mormon

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Hi guys. I recently started speaking to Mormon missionaries who asked to meet me on a regular basis. During our initial meeting, I made it clear to them that I was agnostic (formally atheist (formerly Christian)) and that I wasn't prepared to follow their doctrines. I just wanted to discuss life issues and maybe learn a thing or two about their faith.

 

The reason I started speaking to them in the first place was due to a brief discussion at my front door followed by them asking see me again. Aside from being drawn in by their youthful beauty, I also wanted to explain my agnostic worldview to them in hopes of rescuing two lives from the indoctrinating grasps of religion. (It really bothers me when I see young adults or kids being brainwashed)

 

At first, I had no intentions of joining their religion. In fact, and I apologise if this is site-inappropriate, I was hoping to score with both of them. But after inviting me to their Church and personal counseling sessions with them, I started realizing that maybe God does exist. This also has to due to an enlightening event which took place shortly after our 3rd meeting. Iactually have a lot to say about what occurred that caused me to believe in God again, but we can discuss that later.

 

So to make this post short, I learned some things about the Mormon faith and I am now attracted to it. I want to learn more. I want know if this God really is and if so, why he is using Mormonism to reach me. (It's likely because I wouldn't listen to any other religion) But I'm also curious as to why he would play on my physical attraction to the missionaries he sent my way. Isn't that a little deceptive? Would God do something like that? Because if it had been a couple of bike-riding, suit-wearing guys, I'd have never seen them again.

 

Anyway, I personally believe that God uses any and all religions to reach people and if there is some eternal plane of existence called heaven, I'm sure there will be people from all of them there.

 

Thank you.

 

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2 hours ago, erealmz said:

At first, I had no intentions of joining their religion. In fact, and I apologise if this is site-inappropriate, I was hoping to score with both of them. 

One tactic

 I will say that in my mid-twenties they sent two pretty young Mormon ladies to my door to talk to me about Mormonism as well. Now when you see two pretty ladies like that most guys would think they would be stuck up and arrogant, but I'll tell you they were down to earth and pleasant to talk to. But this alone is not a determiner of truth.

 Two things though that should come to mind:

1. The Children of God cult (today, I think the call themselves The Family International) used this tactic to the extreme. Look up Flirty Fishing. 

2. I think of the words from the gospel hymn entitled "Sin, When Viewed by Scripture Light."

 

Like a fish, my soul mistook,
Saw the bait, but not the hook.

http://www.hymntime.com/tch/htm/s/w/v/swvslite.htm

 

---------------

 Doctrine

The 8th president of the Mormon church (Lorenzo Snow) affirmed:

 As man is, God once was:

 As God is, man may become

 

 You, as a Mormon man, can become a god and your wife can produce spirit babies. You will have your own world and be worshiped by them. Their (the Mormons) Father God achieved the same thing by the same process of good works and obedience. If you are found worthy you can (like their God the Father) achieve the celestial kingdom. In Mormonism they have three kingdoms with the celestial being the highest. This subject most likely won't be brought up in the first meeting, but when I insisted knowing if they did believe it they agreed that it was what they believed.

 

 Anyway, Mormonism adds good works in order to be saved. They also deny the Trinity.

 

 CARM has more detailed information about Mormonism:

https://carm.org/mormonism

 

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The  difference between a mormon and an atheist ? The atheist is honest .

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4 hours ago, erealmz said:

Anyway, I personally believe that God uses any and all religions to reach people and if there is some eternal plane of existence called heaven, I'm sure there will be people from all of them there.

I can assure you that this is not the case. There is only one faith, the faith in Jesus Christ. Mormonism teaches a false faith and a false Christ.  There will not be people who follow other religions in Heaven. There is only one way to the Father.

 

Mormonism distorts Christianity and even changes it. Read what is found in the Bible, not the Book of Mormon, as it is the true word of God. Feel free to ask us questions. We are more than happy to help.

 

2 hours ago, Becky said:

The  difference between a mormon and an atheist ? The atheist is honest .

I would be careful with this statement. You can be honest and be sincerely wrong.

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16 hours ago, erealmz said:

Hi guys. I recently started speaking to Mormon missionaries who asked to meet me on a regular basis. During our initial meeting, I made it clear to them that I was agnostic (formally atheist (formerly Christian)) and that I wasn't prepared to follow their doctrines. I just wanted to discuss life issues and maybe learn a thing or two about their faith.

 

The reason I started speaking to them in the first place was due to a brief discussion at my front door followed by them asking see me again. Aside from being drawn in by their youthful beauty, I also wanted to explain my agnostic worldview to them in hopes of rescuing two lives from the indoctrinating grasps of religion. (It really bothers me when I see young adults or kids being brainwashed)

 

At first, I had no intentions of joining their religion. In fact, and I apologise if this is site-inappropriate, I was hoping to score with both of them. But after inviting me to their Church and personal counseling sessions with them, I started realizing that maybe God does exist. This also has to due to an enlightening event which took place shortly after our 3rd meeting. Iactually have a lot to say about what occurred that caused me to believe in God again, but we can discuss that later.

 

So to make this post short, I learned some things about the Mormon faith and I am now attracted to it. I want to learn more. I want know if this God really is and if so, why he is using Mormonism to reach me. (It's likely because I wouldn't listen to any other religion) But I'm also curious as to why he would play on my physical attraction to the missionaries he sent my way. Isn't that a little deceptive? Would God do something like that? Because if it had been a couple of bike-riding, suit-wearing guys, I'd have never seen them again.

 

Anyway, I personally believe that God uses any and all religions to reach people and if there is some eternal plane of existence called heaven, I'm sure there will be people from all of them there.

 

Thank you.

 

God can use religion to reach people . But let us be fair , If the religion is false then that ruins any possibility of ever knowing the true God and His Son Jesus  Christ . Satan and his ministers are fully aware of false religions and their ability to twist scripture and brainwash the most sincere seekers of God. If God wishes to reach you and apply His truths to your heart, He will use positive and true means to do it. I'd rule out any thought of thinking that you can over rule God by turning away and following a religion that obviously is not true. If God wants you to know and have the truth then He will do it and will produce positive results.  

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Mormonism is a long running con.

Joseph Smith was charged with fraud because he claimed he could seer stones to locate buried treasure for the people he scammed. Later he claimed to use seer stones again to find the gold tablets that make up the book of Mormon.

 

Today Mormon doctrines don't even come from the book of Mormon.

 

The appeal of Mormonism is the same as all other religions except biblical Christianity, they all teach that your works will lead you to heaven or you become a deity in yourself.

 

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 Unless you are a Mormon they most likely ain't gonna fall prey to your advances. The Bible commands us to flee such things in that kind of context. (1 Corinthians 6:18)

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19 hours ago, Faber said:

 Unless you are a Mormon they most likely ain't gonna fall prey to your advances. The Bible commands us to flee such things in that kind of context. (1 Corinthians 6:18)

Thank you for this. I guess I'll become Mormon after all then. But I have to get publicly baptized...

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On 12/28/2018 at 3:08 PM, Innerfire89 said:

Mormonism is a long running con.

Joseph Smith was charged with fraud because he claimed he could seer stones to locate buried treasure for the people he scammed. Later he claimed to use seer stones again to find the gold tablets that make up the book of Mormon.

 

Today Mormon doctrines don't even come from the book of Mormon.

 

The appeal of Mormonism is the same as all other religions except biblical Christianity, they all teach that your works will lead you to heaven or you become a deity in yourself.

 

But in Christianity, "faith without works is dead". Going to church is a work. Giving tithes is a work. Loving your neighbor is a work. Believing in Jesus is a work. Everything is a work. You have to work to get to heaven.

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On 12/27/2018 at 9:40 PM, Matthew Duvall said:

God can use religion to reach people . But let us be fair , If the religion is false then that ruins any possibility of ever knowing the true God and His Son Jesus  Christ . Satan and his ministers are fully aware of false religions and their ability to twist scripture and brainwash the most sincere seekers of God. If God wishes to reach you and apply His truths to your heart, He will use positive and true means to do it. I'd rule out any thought of thinking that you can over rule God by turning away and following a religion that obviously is not true. If God wants you to know and have the truth then He will do it and will produce positive results.  

The night that I had a spiritual Revelation caused me to believe something... That there existed forces outside our spacetime "reality". If the Revelation was not from God, then it must have been from Satan and his ministers.

On 12/27/2018 at 10:16 AM, davidtaylorjr said:

I can assure you that this is not the case. There is only one faith, the faith in Jesus Christ. Mormonism teaches a false faith and a false Christ.  There will not be people who follow other religions in Heaven. There is only one way to the Father.

 

Mormonism distorts Christianity and even changes it. Read what is found in the Bible, not the Book of Mormon, as it is the true word of God. Feel free to ask us questions. We are more than happy to help.

 

I would be careful with this statement. You can be honest and be sincerely wrong.

Yeah you're wrong. Either God and heaven do not exist, or he is a loving God and will not torture people for eternity.

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33 minutes ago, erealmz said:

Thank you for this. I guess I'll become Mormon after all then. But I have to get publicly baptized...

 

 I think that based on what you wrote in the past you really just want to find a girlfriend. Am I correct? This is not to belittle your or your situation. I felt the same way for a long time. But I think you are going about it in a way that will later lead to a lot of heartache and ultimately destruction (because of false Mormon teaching). To go along with their false doctrines over and over again for years on end just because the lady looks good is going to be a terrible ordeal. Samson did the same thing (Judges 14:3), and then later another woman (not a believer) just nagged him to death (Judges 16:16).

 If you marry the woman you are marrying Mormonism. You sure you want that? Because if/when you try to step back from it she won't be happy and it will be a source of tension.

 

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Yes that's right. I come pretty close to finding them but they always shy away. Even now. So I've resorted to anyone that will stick around. So far, the Mormons have.

Edited by erealmz

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I see.

 

 Well, here's my advice for you. I write this in humility and kindness and also in truth. As a Christian I will try to give my best advice based on the Bible.

 

 The first need is to have your heart right with God. Once a person is a Christian then he/she knows that God knows what is best for them - and this includes a potential spouse. Some Christians are called to be single, but I think most are not.

 

 There are plenty of really pretty and cool Christian ladies out there. I think My2kids previously offered very insightful advice to you here:

https://www.christforums.com/topic/6707-looking-for-a-partner/?tab=comments#comment-37490

 

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MM

16 hours ago, erealmz said:

Yes that's right. I come pretty close to finding them but they always shy away. Even now. So I've resorted to anyone that will stick around. So far, the Mormons have.

Maybe those girls you have met will not stick around for long. Mormons have quite strict rules for missionary workers and I think those girls will soon suggest that you continue either with male missionary workers or with them, but meeting in a mormon home together with older members of the church.

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23 hours ago, erealmz said:

Either God and heaven do not exist, or he is a loving God and will not torture people for eternity.

Why? This is a misunderstanding of God. God is loving, yes. But he is also holy and sin must be punished.

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On 12/30/2018 at 9:32 AM, erealmz said:

But in Christianity, "faith without works is dead". Going to church is a work. Giving tithes is a work. Loving your neighbor is a work. Believing in Jesus is a work. Everything is a work. You have to work to get to heaven.

There's works but justification is by faith alone. Works are the effect of having true saving faith, they are the fruits of being saved and are preordained for us to do.

 

Ehpeaians 2:8-10

8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

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On 12/30/2018 at 7:32 AM, erealmz said:

But in Christianity, "faith without works is dead". Going to church is a work. Giving tithes is a work. Loving your neighbor is a work. Believing in Jesus is a work. Everything is a work. You have to work to get to heaven.

You are partially right. None of those things will get you into heaven. Our works apart from Christ are our own. "Faith without works is dead", in other words we are justified in front of other men by our works, our works testify about our faith, but this does not mean we are justified before God by our works. 

 

Being good is never good enough to please God. God is infinite, holy, majestic, and just. If it was possible to get to heaven by being good, by being loving, then Christ would not have needed to die. Many people do not realize that to be loving is a command of the Old Testament Law. Please consider these two verses:

 

Deuteronomy 6:5, “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might."

Leviticus 19:18, "You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD."

 

Both of these passages are quoted by Jesus in Matt. 22:37 and Matt. 22:39, respectively. We are undoubtedly supposed to love, but keeping the Old Testament command to love God and love your neighbor is not good enough for us to get to heaven. Paul said, “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly," (Gal. 2:21). And again, "Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law," (Gal. 3:21). Paul clearly tells us that we cannot obtain the righteousness that we need by keeping the Law, which includes loving God and loving your neighbor. So, you cannot love your way into heaven.

 

Then how do we get to heaven?

 

We get to heaven by receiving Christ as Savior. We do this by faith, not by faith and any work of any kind. We have to understand that we are sinners and there's nothing we can do that will be good enough before God (Rom. 3:10-12; 6:23). If there were, then Jesus didn't need to die. But Jesus who is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14) died on the cross, was buried, and rose from the dead (1Corinthians 15:1-4). That is the gospel message. By trusting in Christ and believing in the gospel, we are declared right before God by faith (Romans 4:1-5; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8-9). In other words, when we receive Christ by faith (John 1:12), the righteousness of God is given to us (Philippians 3:9). This is called justification. Justification is a legal standing before God. It means that the one who has trusted in Christ by faith, is now declared legally righteous according to the law. Since the law includes loving God and loving our neighbors, those parts of the law must be fulfilled perfectly. It was Jesus who fulfilled the law without failure. So, we receive by faith what Christ did - which includes loving God and loving our neighbor. Therefore, everything we need is found in Jesus.

 

And to touch upon the pretty missionary girls from the Mormon cult:

 

I've seen many a Christians fall for this too. Also in Spiritual circles sometimes they appeal to a persons desire, wanting a spouse or to be married. They use this to draw people into their congregations and singles groups. Really, it almost appears to be a meat market. This isn't only a Mormonism tactic.

 

In some ways, there's actually nothing wrong with desiring a Godly woman. Though I wouldn't suggest that this be the sole reason to enter Christianity etc., it can be used appropriately and establish the universal commandment and teaching of the one flesh union under God. However, God may be planting the desire for an intimate relationship with Himself. Earthly relationships are only temporal and designed to prepare us for an eternal relationship with God. If a Godly woman is a desire, then I suggest using your time to be transformed into a Godly man receptive to the Word in preparation for the "ideal" Proverbs 31 woman. By then we'd hope you understand that true beauty is objective and grounded in the moral beauty of the Creator.

 

God bless,

William

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10 hours ago, William said:

Being good is never good enough to please God.

I disagree. Being righteous does please God. Maybe not enough as to allow us into Paradise, but being righteous definitely pleases God. I mean, a large part of The Old Testament (many of the Psalms, the Proverbs, Ecclesiastess, Ezekiel etc.) advise people to live righteous lives because that's what God wants from us.

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1 hour ago, Lucian Hodoboc said:

I disagree. Being righteous does please God. Maybe not enough as to allow us into Paradise, but being righteous definitely pleases God. I mean, a large part of The Old Testament (many of the Psalms, the Proverbs, Ecclesiastess, Ezekiel etc.) advise people to live righteous lives because that's what God wants from us.

God is not just pleased but demands we live righteously yet who among us apart from Jesus Christ is righteous? Tell me how and you'll talk me outta the necessity of Christ.

 

To the Jew and Gentile:

 

Isaiah 64:6 We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

Psalm 14:3 They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

Romans 3:10-12 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one

 

So please explain "how" one becomes righteous in the sight of God. Before you do, if you don't mind me asking, are you Eastern Orthodox Lucian?

 

God bless,

William

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Isa_64:6  But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. 
 

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On 1/1/2019 at 10:36 AM, William said:

So please explain "how" one becomes righteous in the sight of God. Before you do, if you don't mind me asking, are you Eastern Orthodox Lucian?

Technically, yes. I was baptized in the Eastern-Orthodox faith, but I don't necessarily agree with all of the Eastern-orthodox teachings. May I ask why?

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5 hours ago, Lucian Hodoboc said:

Technically, yes. I was baptized in the Eastern-Orthodox faith, but I don't necessarily agree with all of the Eastern-orthodox teachings. May I ask why?

Am always looking for someone to turn if I have questions about certain areas of study. If I have questions about the Eastern Orthodox church I hope you don't mind if I ask you?

 

God bless,

William

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