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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
William

Election and Reprobation

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by Wayne Grudem

 

When and why did God choose us? Are some not chosen?

 

In the earlier chapters we talked about the fact that we all have sinned and deserve eternal punishment from God, and the fact that Christ died and earned salvation for us. But now in this unit (chapters 32–43) we will look at the way God applies that salvation to our lives. We begin in this chapter with God’s work of election, that is, his decision to choose us to be saved before the foundation of the world. This act of election is, of course, not (strictly speaking) part of the application of salvation to us, since it came before Christ earned our salvation when he died on the cross. But we treat election at this point because it is chronologically the beginning of God’s dealing with us in a gracious way. Therefore, it is rightly thought of as the first step in the process of God’s bringing salvation to us individually.

 

Other steps in God’s work of applying salvation to our lives include our hearing the gospel call, our being regenerated by the Holy Spirit, our responding in faith and repentance, and God forgiving us and giving us membership in his family, as well as granting us growth in the Christian life and keeping us faithful to himself throughout life. At the end of our life we die and go into his presence, then when Christ returns we receive resurrection bodies, and the process of acquiring salvation is complete.

 

Various theologians have given specific terms to a number of these events, and have often listed them in a specific order in which they believe that they occur in our lives. Such a list of the events in which God applies salvation to us is called the order of salvation and is sometimes referred to by a Latin phrase, ordo salutis which simply means “order of salvation.” Before discussing any of these elements in the application of salvation to our lives, we can give a complete list here of the elements that will be treated in the following chapters:

 

“The Order of Salvation”

 

1.   Election (God’s choice of people to be saved)

2.   The gospel call (proclaiming the message of the gospel)

3.   Regeneration (being born again)

4.   Conversion (faith and repentance)

5.   Justification (right legal standing)

6.   Adoption (membership in God’s family)

7.   Sanctification (right conduct of life)

8.   Perseverance (remaining a Christian)

9.   Death (going to be with the Lord)

10. Glorification (receiving a resurrection body)

 

We should note here that items 2–6 and part of 7 are all involved in “becoming a Christian.” Numbers 7 and 8 work themselves out in this life, number 9 occurs at the end of this life, and number 10 occurs when Christ returns.

 

We begin our discussion of the order of salvation with the first element, election. In connection with this we will also discuss at the end of this chapter the question of “reprobation,” the decision of God to pass over those who will not be saved, and to punish them for their sins. As will be explained below, election and reprobation are different in several important respects, and it is important to distinguish these so that we do not think wrongly about God or his activity.

 

The term predestination is also frequently used in this discussion. In this textbook, and in Reformed theology generally, predestination is a broader term and includes the two aspects of election (for believers) and reprobation (for unbelievers). However, the term double predestination is not a helpful term because it gives the impression that both election and reprobation are carried out in the same way by God and have no essential differences between them, which is certainly not true. Therefore, the term double predestination is not generally used by Reformed theologians, though it is sometimes used to refer to Reformed teaching by those who criticize it. The term double predestination will not be used in this book to refer to election and reprobation, since it blurs the distinctions between them and does not give an accurate indication of what is actually being taught.

 

Read More: Election and Reprobation | Monergism

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Regeneration comes before your faith, indeed it is the cause of why you believe.

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

 

'see' means pay attention to, perceive, want anything to do with, the kingdom of God.

Unless you are born again first you will have no serious interest in knowing Christ as God come in the flesh to save you.

The NT is chock full of our being elected, which means chosen of God for salvation.

 

2 Thessalonians 2

 

13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 

15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our [h]epistle.

 

 

 

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The power of God has saved you, if you are saved. Only believers are saved, so your faith is a gift of God, lest anyone boast in their flesh that they chose Christ for themself.

2 Timothy 1:8-10 New King James Version (NKJV)

 

8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 

9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 

10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

 

Every good and perfect gift comes down from above from the Father of lights, and that include the faith given to you to believe in the SON.

Romans 12

 

3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith

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9 hours ago, sdowney717 said:

The power of God has saved you, if you are saved. Only believers are saved, so your faith is a gift of God, lest anyone boast in their flesh that they chose Christ for themself.

2 Timothy 1:8-10 New King James Version (NKJV)

It’s not the power of God that saves us it’s by his grace we are saved. I can’t really boast when the only thing I did was accept the free gift God gave me. Salvation is the gift from God that he gives to anyone who accepts it by believing and accepting Christ. 

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9 hours ago, sdowney717 said:

, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

Yes God choose YOU  - meaning those who accept Christ as their savior. 

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1 hour ago, Erik said:

Yes God choose YOU  - meaning those who accept Christ as their savior. 

Verse please. 

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2 hours ago, Erik said:

It’s not the power of God that saves us it’s by his grace we are saved. I can’t really boast when the only thing I did was accept the free gift God gave me. Salvation is the gift from God that he gives to anyone who accepts it by believing and accepting Christ. 

Can you explain an act of Grace by God? I'm not looking for a definition such as unmerited favor. I'm asking for an example of an act of grace in the order of salvation. 

 

For example, an act of grace that requires omnipotence is resurrecting someone from the dead, physical or spiritual. 

 

As for accepting anything that is a ridiculous statement in relation to the state of the unregenerate. It would be like Jesus saying rise from the dead Lazarus and Lazarus responding with I accept you Jesus. For one, a biblical response to regeneration is not acceptance but rather confession, repentance and faith. I accept you, lol, said a dead man. 

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4 minutes ago, William said:

Can you explain an act of Grace by God? I'm not looking for a definition such as unmerited favor. I'm asking for an example of an act of grace in the order of salvation. 

Noah and his family. Only by grace were they saved from the flood. They would have died with the others had God not saved them. As for accepting. Noah did not have to build the ark and accept the salvation that God offered. But he believed God so he chose to build the ark. 

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23 minutes ago, William said:

Verse please. 

“But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭2:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

You are those that are sanctified by the Spirit and believed in the truth (the Gospel)

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1 minute ago, Erik said:

Noah and his family. Only by grace were they saved from the flood. They would have died with the others had God not saved them. As for accepting. Noah did not have to build the ark and accept the salvation that God offered. But he believed God so he chose to build the ark. 

There's no sense repeating from who belief comes. 

 

Something to think about Erik, the religious are always centering on man and the theological centered on Christ. 

 

I hear a lot about man choosing from his knowledge of good and evil, and his ability to rule over himself. This is biblical in the sense that in Genesis 3:5 Satan disguised as a serpent taught this doctrine. This is the doctrine of devils, and unfortunately one taught by many professing Christians.

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7 minutes ago, William said:

There's no sense repeating from who belief comes. 

 

Something to think about Erik, the religious are always centering on man and the theological centered on Christ. 

 

I hear a lot about man choosing from his knowledge of good and evil, and his ability to rule over himself. This is biblical in the sense that in Genesis 3:5 Satan disguised as a serpent taught this doctrine. This is the doctrine of devils, and unfortunately one taught by many professing Christians.

Adam chose to eat from the tree. He didn’t have to choose to eat. Personal accountability is all I’m saying. All that you have is from God and everything is because of him only. But I believe He gave us a choice whether to accept him or not.

Edited by Erik

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4 minutes ago, Erik said:

Adam chose to eat from the tree. He didn’t have to do that. Personal accountability is all I’m saying. All that you have is from God and everything is because of him only. But I believe He gave us a choice whether to accept him or not.

Go to a graveyard, stand over a grave or two. Take a moment to live out the valley of dry bones. Let's see who accepts you. Give them all a choice. Dead men are incapable of what you expect without God's intervention.

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8 minutes ago, William said:

There's no sense repeating from who belief comes

Yes he gave us the ability to believe but not what we believe.

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8 minutes ago, Erik said:

Yes he gave us the ability to believe but not what we believe.

 

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

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34 minutes ago, William said:

1. God has the ability to do anything he wants. Including opening and closing someone’s heart. Because he may do that in specific situations and with specific people does that imply he does that across the board? - I don’t believe it does and and I don’t believe the Bible teaches that 

2. What God did in this verse was in response and towards those who did not believe and accept the Truth. When they chose not to accept then he chose to respond in the way he did. 

 

 

Edited by Erik

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18 minutes ago, Erik said:

1. God has the ability to do anything he wants. Including opening and closing someone’s heart. Because he may do that in specific situations and with specific people does that imply he does that across the board - I don’t believe it does and and I don’t believe the Bible teaches that 

2. What God did in this verse was in response and towards those who did not believe and accept the Truth. When they chose not to accept then he chose to respond in the way he did. 

 

 

The natural man doesn't have the ability. And that's the point.

 

1. You've rejected the necessity of Election and Regeneration.

2. God foreordained and by a righteous judgment delivered over to a reprobate mind Romans 1:28. God has appointed the reprobate to destruction, with closed eyes and a senseless mind, they are as if bewitched delivered over to Satan and his ministers to be deceived.

 

You stated,

 

43 minutes ago, Erik said:

Yes he gave us the ability to believe but not what we believe.

 

You have been refuted.

 

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3 hours ago, William said:
4 hours ago, Erik said:

Yes he gave us the ability to believe but not what we believe.

 

You have been refuted.

Ok so you are saying we believe because God makes us believe but if he doesn’t make us believe then he sends us to hell for eternal conscious torment because we didn’t believe. 

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50 minutes ago, Erik said:

Ok so you are saying we believe because God makes us believe but if he doesn’t make us believe then he sends us to hell for eternal conscious torment because we didn’t believe. 

When God makes us born again we are as newborn babes. Babies have a parent that cares for them and teaches them about life, in God's case eternal life, and since God is the very best good teacher, and the babe is part of His family, then by their new natre they trust or entrust themself to their Heavenly Father.

 

Jesus in John 6 says EVERYONE who has heard from the Father and learned from the Father comes to Me.

 

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 

45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

 

IF all have heard from God the all would come to Christ, But Jesus is not saying ALL are taught by God. God only teaches those who are a part of His own family those who are OF GOD, that is those who He has determined to redeem from their sins.

 

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 

36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 

38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me

39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

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If God were your Father, then you would love Christ. 

Hence, if God is not your Father, then your father is the devil, and you will not love Christ.

If you do not HEAR Christ, then you are not OF GOD, meaning your nature is not born again.

This really should point out that you must be born again to enter the kingdom of God, if your not born of God, then you will not hear God's words and you will never believe in Christ and be saved.

 

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?

 

 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.

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On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 10:23 AM, William said:

by Wayne Grudem

 

When and why did God choose us? Are some not chosen?

 

In the earlier chapters we talked about the fact that we all have sinned and deserve eternal punishment from God, and the fact that Christ died and earned salvation for us. But now in this unit (chapters 32–43) we will look at the way God applies that salvation to our lives. We begin in this chapter with God’s work of election, that is, his decision to choose us to be saved before the foundation of the world. This act of election is, of course, not (strictly speaking) part of the application of salvation to us, since it came before Christ earned our salvation when he died on the cross. But we treat election at this point because it is chronologically the beginning of God’s dealing with us in a gracious way. Therefore, it is rightly thought of as the first step in the process of God’s bringing salvation to us individually.

 

Other steps in God’s work of applying salvation to our lives include our hearing the gospel call, our being regenerated by the Holy Spirit, our responding in faith and repentance, and God forgiving us and giving us membership in his family, as well as granting us growth in the Christian life and keeping us faithful to himself throughout life. At the end of our life we die and go into his presence, then when Christ returns we receive resurrection bodies, and the process of acquiring salvation is complete.

 

Various theologians have given specific terms to a number of these events, and have often listed them in a specific order in which they believe that they occur in our lives. Such a list of the events in which God applies salvation to us is called the order of salvation and is sometimes referred to by a Latin phrase, ordo salutis which simply means “order of salvation.” Before discussing any of these elements in the application of salvation to our lives, we can give a complete list here of the elements that will be treated in the following chapters:

 

“The Order of Salvation”

 

1.   Election (God’s choice of people to be saved)

2.   The gospel call (proclaiming the message of the gospel)

3.   Regeneration (being born again)

4.   Conversion (faith and repentance)

5.   Justification (right legal standing)

6.   Adoption (membership in God’s family)

7.   Sanctification (right conduct of life)

8.   Perseverance (remaining a Christian)

9.   Death (going to be with the Lord)

10. Glorification (receiving a resurrection body)

 

We should note here that items 2–6 and part of 7 are all involved in “becoming a Christian.” Numbers 7 and 8 work themselves out in this life, number 9 occurs at the end of this life, and number 10 occurs when Christ returns.

 

We begin our discussion of the order of salvation with the first element, election. In connection with this we will also discuss at the end of this chapter the question of “reprobation,” the decision of God to pass over those who will not be saved, and to punish them for their sins. As will be explained below, election and reprobation are different in several important respects, and it is important to distinguish these so that we do not think wrongly about God or his activity.

 

The term predestination is also frequently used in this discussion. In this textbook, and in Reformed theology generally, predestination is a broader term and includes the two aspects of election (for believers) and reprobation (for unbelievers). However, the term double predestination is not a helpful term because it gives the impression that both election and reprobation are carried out in the same way by God and have no essential differences between them, which is certainly not true. Therefore, the term double predestination is not generally used by Reformed theologians, though it is sometimes used to refer to Reformed teaching by those who criticize it. The term double predestination will not be used in this book to refer to election and reprobation, since it blurs the distinctions between them and does not give an accurate indication of what is actually being taught.

 

Read More: Election and Reprobation | Monergism

I'll have to get back with you on this subject after Christmas. I must be out of my mind . It's three o'clock am and I am typing on a computer when I should be sleeping . Still haven't finished Christmas shopping yet.....

 Have a great Christmas everyone !!!!!

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