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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
sdowney717

There wont be any sinners in heaven

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Psalm 1:5

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

 

Hebrews 10

17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 

18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

 

Christ came to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. and that was for the first time He came.

When Christ comes again it will not be for sin (apart from sin)  but for salvation to deliver us from this present evil age.

 

The sin problem is gone away, if your a new creation in Christ Jesus created by God according to righteousness and holiness.

 

But see some christian people are still in love with their flesh and so then love their sin, and it seems to me these  people love even the idea of their sinfulness.

The Old covenant has passed away, there is no longer a sacrifice for sin, Jesus entered into the Holy of Holies and once for all time offered up His blood for our sin.

You do realize that Ephesians 1 points out we were chosen IN HIM before the foundation of the world? 

That we are holy and without blame before Him in love?

And have been forgiven all of our sins?

 

Ephesians 1

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He [a]made us accepted in the Beloved.

7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 

 

Hebrews 9

23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

 

Hebrews 8

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

But if you reject Christ, then there is no longer a sacrifice for your sin.

Hebrews 10

15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 

17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

 

19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness[f] to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.

 

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

For v26 to be meaningful in light of being chosen in Him by Him before the world was  and forgiven all of our sins, means those who willfully sin are apostate antichrists, the seed of the devil planted not by the Lord.

And that willful sinning is referring to rejection of Christ.

Edited by sdowney717

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Who is going to heaven? I thought heaven (the Kingdom of) was coming to earth?

 

Rev. 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."    :classic_cool:

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32 minutes ago, deade said:

Who is going to heaven? I thought heaven (the Kingdom of) was coming to earth?

 

Rev. 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."    :classic_cool:

So where are those believers who have died in the Lord right now?

 

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Philippians 3 tells us our citizenship is in heaven. 

What does the word citizenship imply? That it is our homeland.

 

17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. 18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things. 20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

 

I also know God eventually on the NEW earth and New heavens sets up His Heavenly Jerusalem on the NEW earth wherein dwells righteousness. The old earth and old heaven having been destroyed. I am a futurist here, some wrongly say we are living in the age of the new heavens and new earth.

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10 minutes ago, johnwayne said:

Good question.

my guess, in graves waiting for resurrection.

People's spirits are redeemed and are joined to the Lord as one spirit with Him and they have eternal life, everyone who believes has passed from death into life.

We are forever joined to Him, so when we depart this body we are present with the Lord Jesus in our spirits, while the body not yet redeemed rots in the earth.

Note v6-8, absent from the body, present with the Lord. When you physically die your spirit is released from your body and since it is eternally   alive, not dead, you are taken up to be where Christ is by the angels.

The dead with dead spirits go to hell.

 

2 Cor 5

 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

 

1 Corinthians 6:16-17 New King James Version (NKJV)
16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.” 17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

Edited by sdowney717

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@sdowney717 Hey brother, I think deade is alluding to the new heavens and earth? Is the intermediate heaven before the last day a permanent abode for disembodied spirits that are to be reunited with a glorified body? And once glorified is our permanent home in heaven or a new earth?

 

God bless,

William

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8 hours ago, William said:

@sdowney717 Hey brother, I think deade is alluding to the new heavens and earth? Is the intermediate heaven before the last day a permanent abode for disembodied spirits that are to be reunited with a glorified body? And once glorified is our permanent home in heaven or a new earth?

 

God bless,

William

Scripturally our citizenship is in heaven, but  heaven does come to earth with the New Jerusalem descending onto the New earth at some future  time.

Still where do those who die in the Lord go right now? They go to be with Christ, and where is Christ right now and has been for 2000 yrs? Sitting at the Father's right hand.

So where will you go when you die? What happened to Stephen in Acts, what did he see?

I certainly expect to go to heaven when I pass on, not soul sleep in the grave.

Paul tells us we are seated in heavenly places as does Christ.So where is this heaven they tell us of?

Matthew 8:11

And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

 

Heaven is where God sits, God reigns from heaven.

Matthew 10:32

[ Confess Christ Before Men ] “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.

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19 hours ago, sdowney717 said:

Christ came to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. and that was for the first time He came.

When Christ comes again it will not be for sin (apart from sin)  but for salvation to deliver us from this present evil age.

 

The sin problem is gone away, if your a new creation in Christ Jesus created by God according to righteousness and holiness.

 

But see some christian people are still in love with their flesh and so then love their sin, and it seems to me these  people love even the idea of their sinfulness.

The Old covenant has passed away, there is no longer a sacrifice for sin, Jesus entered into the Holy of Holies and once for all time offered up His blood for our sin.

You do realize that Ephesians 1 points out we were chosen IN HIM before the foundation of the world? 

That we are holy and without blame before Him in love?

And have been forgiven all of our sins?

Hi sdowney717, Are you familiar with the 7 letters in Revelation? Were the Christians all commended for their sinless perfection, or were there those who were commanded to repent? Also, have you studied this passage in John's epistle lately?

 1Jn 3:1-6
(1)  Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God: and such we are. For this cause the world knows us not, because it knew him not.
(2)  Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.
(3)  And every one that has this hope set on him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
(4)  Every one that does sin does also lawlessness: and sin is lawlessness.
(5)  And you know that he was manifested to take away sins; and in him is no sin.
(6)  Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins has not seen him, neither knows him.
 

The problem is that the new man in Christ is in a battle with the old man of the flesh. The new man in Christ does not sin but this side of heaven the old man of the flesh can cause a Christian to sin, which is why we have Christ as our mediator.

1Jn 1:8-10
(8)  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(9)  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(10)  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Jn 2:1-6
(1)  My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
(2)  and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.

(3)  And hereby know we that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
(4)  He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him:
(5)  but whoso keeps his word, in him verily has the love of God been perfected. Hereby know we that we are in him:
(6)  he that says he abides in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.

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13 minutes ago, Placable37 said:

 

 

Hi sdowney717, Are you familiar with the 7 letters in Revelation? Were the Christians all commended for their sinless perfection, or were there those who were commanded to repent? Also, have you studied this passage in John's epistle lately?

 1Jn 3:1-6
(1)  Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God: and such we are. For this cause the world knows us not, because it knew him not.
(2)  Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.
(3)  And every one that has this hope set on him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
(4)  Every one that does sin does also lawlessness: and sin is lawlessness.
(5)  And you know that he was manifested to take away sins; and in him is no sin.
(6)  Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins has not seen him, neither knows him.
 

The problem is that the new man in Christ is in a battle with the old man of the flesh. The new man in Christ does not sin but this side of heaven the old man of the flesh can cause a Christian to sin, which is why we have Christ as our mediator.

1Jn 1:8-10
(8)  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(9)  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(10)  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Jn 2:1-6
(1)  My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
(2)  and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.

(3)  And hereby know we that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
(4)  He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him:
(5)  but whoso keeps his word, in him verily has the love of God been perfected. Hereby know we that we are in him:
(6)  he that says he abides in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.

My posts have nothing to do with sinless perfectionism.

That is a doctrine that you must strive to be perfect or your not going to be saved, like failing the test in the slightest part dooms you.

 

God simply forgives and does not remember any of your sins, in relation to having eternal life. or not having it.

If God says I am a just man made perfect, then I am so.

Jesus told us you shall be perfect even as the Father in heaven is perfect.

That perfection is accomplished when he makes us born of God and we have been spiritually perfected, we are the just men made perfect of Hebrews 12.

 

Hebrews 8 tells us how the NEW COVENANT works, But many people mistakenly follow the OLD covenant thinking.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

In that is said 'WE HAVE COME', signifies this is the reality right NOW, You seem to love your sin and sinfulness more than the righteousness freely given by God to those He has made accepted in the Beloved.

 

Hebrews 12

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the [j]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

 

 

 

Edited by sdowney717
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41 minutes ago, Placable37 said:

The problem is that the new man in Christ is in a battle with the old man of the flesh. The new man in Christ does not sin but this side of heaven the old man of the flesh can cause a Christian to sin, which is why we have Christ as our mediator.

Anyone that has ever struggled with a drug addiction understands this. The flesh definitely has memory.

28 minutes ago, sdowney717 said:

My posts have nothing to do with sinless perfectionism.

That is a doctrine that you must strive to be perfect or your not going to be saved, like failing the test in the slightest part dooms you.

Agreed, you're addressing a few different points namely being teleios or perfect, what that means, and also glorification.

 

Pretty good responses.

 

God bless,

William

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40 minutes ago, Placable37 said:

Are you familiar with the 7 letters in Revelation? Were the Christians all commended for their sinless perfection, or were there those who were commanded to repent? Also, have you studied this passage in John's epistle lately?

 

 Even though sdowney did not advocate sinless perfection, I will say Placable that your points about it are spot on.

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19 minutes ago, William said:

Anyone that has ever struggled with a drug addiction understands this. The flesh definitely has memory.

 So true.

 I would also add that it applies to any/all addictions. The filth and junk we poured into our hearts and minds is millions of times worse than vomit.

 May we continually have the blood of Jesus to cleanse us and purify our hearts.

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On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 2:43 PM, sdowney717 said:

But see some christian people are still in love with their flesh and so then love their sin, and it seems to me these  people love even the idea of their sinfulness.

Could you elaborate on this please. How did you arrive at this criticism?

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