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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
kunoichi9280

Returning Protestant

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On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 10:32 AM, William said:

Catholic apologist are really skilled at that approach to fitting pegs 🤣 

 

And if all else fails, there's the ultimate argument of the Magisterium.  It's up to them to tell us what Catholic tradition is and what Scripture means, since there's not one nice and neat resource you can go to and say "This is Tradition".  So really, for the Catholic, it's sola Magisterium. 

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21 hours ago, kunoichi9280 said:

In my case, I had lost all but one of my Catholic friends over some complicated personal problems, so no one cared.  My one friend is a very devout Catholic, but she fully believes Protestants are saved (she believes we have a lot of the faith but only Catholics have the "full" faith), so she was fine, although I'm sure she's disappointed.  I had left my previous parish and hadn't really made any connections at another one so it was less of an issue for me.   Had I done it five years ago, though, I believe we would have had a great deal of social pressure to stay, and the priest probably would have wanted to meet with us..

I understand if the priest wants to meet once or twice if someone says he or she is leaving the church. But there shouldn't be any pressure.

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On 12/28/2018 at 6:47 AM, davidtaylorjr said:

Agreed, for example, the United Methodist Church does not believe Scripture is the final authority. They say we must also look at tradition, reason, logic, science, and experience. Does that sound familiar anyone? History repeats itself?

Is the United Methodist Church still considered Protestant if they've rejected Protestant theology? In all seriousness and with all identity politics to the side how can a congregation be Protestant if they've rejected the 5 Solas with emphasis on Sola Scriptura?

 

How'd you class them? Liberal?

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7 minutes ago, William said:

Is the United Methodist Church still considered Protestant if they've rejected Protestant theology? In all seriousness and with all identity politics to the side how can a congregation be Protestant if they've rejected the 5 Solas with emphasis on Sola Scriptura?

 

How'd you class them? Liberal?

At this point I'd question whether they're even Christian, let alone Protestant.  The United Methodist Church was taken over by the heretical Modernists a long time ago, and as such they reject most of Christian orthodoxy.  Apostates.

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13 minutes ago, William said:

Is the United Methodist Church still considered Protestant if they've rejected Protestant theology? In all seriousness and with all identity politics to the side how can a congregation be Protestant if they've rejected the 5 Solas with emphasis on Sola Scriptura?

I would say no.

 

13 minutes ago, William said:

How'd you class them? Liberal?

Liberal easily.

 

It is really difficult. I attend a UMC church where I am. There are literally no other churches in the immediate area. It is a small country church and they do not follow the UMC denomination. So there are some churches within the denomination that are solid. It is really just the Bishops and the large city churches that are the problem.

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12 minutes ago, Concord said:

At this point I'd question whether they're even Christian, let alone Protestant.  The United Methodist Church was taken over by the heretical Modernists a long time ago, and as such they reject most of Christian orthodoxy.  Apostates.

I'd agree with you but feel free to correct me if wrong, a Cult may be Christian though they reject the Essentials of the faith but nonetheless they are still classified as a Christian Cult such as Mormonism.

 

If they're Liberal then I whole heartedly agree with you. I'd reduce them down to nothing more than a book club.

 

Heretical? Yea, I questioned the doctrines which inspired them. Namely from John Wesley.

 

That is after observing those from that camp and their "principles or methods" of interpretation.

 

Wesleyan-Arminianism:

 

https://www.theopedia.com/john-wesley

 

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2 minutes ago, William said:

I'd agree with you but feel free to correct me if wrong, a Cult may be Christian though they reject the Essentials of the faith but nonetheless they are still classified as a Christian Cult such as Mormonism.

 

If they're Liberal then I whole heartedly agree with you. I'd reduce them down to nothing more than a book club.

 

Heretical? Yea, I questioned the doctrines which inspired them. Namely from John Wesley.

 

Given the "principles or methods" of interpretation I've seen come from out of the Wesleyan-Arminianism:

 

https://www.theopedia.com/john-wesley

 

I think, first and foremost, to be a Christian means you have to embrace the Trinity......Which the Mormons (and the JWs) do not.  I'd never classify Mormons as Christian.

 

Arminianism is still within the spectrum of Christian orthodoxy.  It's not their Arminianism that was the problem.  If anything, they've ditched true Arminianism and put the Modernist (liberal) heresy in it's place.  Liberal churches are apostate. 

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4 hours ago, Concord said:

to be a Christian means you have to embrace the Trinity

I agree, the Trinity is essential to the faith.

 

4 hours ago, Concord said:

Which the Mormons (and the JWs) do not.  I'd never classify Mormons as Christian.

Yup, they are non Trinitarian. I definitely wouldn't consider them orthodox Christians. Regarding Mormons and JWs, I refer to them as a Christian Cult rather than an Islamic Cult or plain Cult like Scientology. 

 

4 hours ago, Concord said:

Arminianism is still within the spectrum of Christian orthodoxy.

Well, lemme elaborate, not according to the Synod of Dort from which (classical) Arminianism was addressed when it began its controversy in the Reformed church.

 

4 hours ago, Concord said:

If anything, they've ditched true Arminianism and put the Modernist (liberal) heresy in it's place.

Yes, I hear a lot of Wesleyans suggest that Wesley further developed Arminianism.

 

I'm sure classical Arminians may object. Not comparing Lutherans to Arminians but the objection I'm sure is reminiscent to Lutherans which reject the notion that Calvin furthered the Reformation and developed Reformed doctrines of even Martin Luther.

 

4 hours ago, Concord said:

Liberal churches are apostate. 

You're too kind! 🤣

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