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Grafted Branch

The abomination of desolation

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I attribute the accounts of the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 and the transgression of desolation in Daniel 8:13 to Antiochus Epiphanies. There certainly seems to be similarities to the Antichrist or Satan himself but because of the context of the verses surrounding them I place them as occurring prior to Christ’s birth.

   In Daniel 12:11-12 the daily shall be taken away, that is the necessity to provide the daily sacrifices as outlined in Exodus 29:38-39 which was 2 lambs, 1 in the morning and 1 in the evening. The point at which this occurred is in John 1:29 where Jesus was declared to be the lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. There are 1290 days until the abomination that maketh desolate is set up. The first sacrifice made after the veil of the temple was torn in two would be considered an abomination. In Matthew 27:51 along with the veil being torn there was an earthquake and the rocks rent. I think the altar used to make the sacrifices was broken down. In Matthew 24:15 the abomination is standing in the holy place, this is the altar being put back up and sacrifices resumed. Blessed is he that waiteth and cometh to the 1335 days. This is Pentecost and is recorded in Acts 2. The difference between 1290 and 1335 is 45 days, it would’ve taken some time to put the temple back in order and resume sacrifices after the veil was torn and the earthquake.

   In Daniel 9:26-27 Messiah is cut off after 62 weeks or sevens. This implies that the event of the cross happens during the next seven. In the midst of the seven he shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease. This is the veil being torn in two and the earthquake. I think this caused the sacrifices to physically cease for a short period of time. If the 70 sevens in Daniel 9:24 are continuous and there isn’t a parenthetical time period in between the 69th seven and 70th seven then a problem arises. If the 69 sevens are actual years and up to the 3 1/2 mark of the last seven are actual years (the event of the cross) then why is Jerusalem destroyed in A.D.70 and not sooner?

 

The Olivet Discourse 

 

   In Matthew 24:29 it states that the sun will be darkened, the moon shall not give light and the stars shall fall from heaven, immediately after the tribulation of those days. Luke 21:24 has the Gentiles treading down Jerusalem until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled, this happens before the event of the signs in the sun, moon, and stars. In Revelation 11:2 Gentiles tread the holy city under foot for 42 months. If the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D.70 is the event in Luke 21:20 and if this event would’ve happened at the same time as the abomination of desolation, then after 42 months of the Gentiles treading down Jerusalem the signs in the sun,moon, and stars would come to pass. This would line up with the 70 sevens determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city in Daniel 9:24 and all the years could be viewed as actual, continuous years. We know these events didn’t happen this way.

   Matthew 24 and Mark 13 both record the statement except those days be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. Luke 21:22 states that these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. In Isaiah 53:10, which is speaking of Christ, it states “when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days”. By implication if the days of vengeance are shortened then the days without vengeance will be prolonged. The statement that the days will be shortened isn’t recorded in Luke and I think the days being prolonged have been incorporated into it. I think this is why the account in Luke doesn’t use the term “abomination of desolation” but says “when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies” and also includes Jerusalem being trodden down of the Gentiles.

   2 Peter 3:8-9 (which in all likelihood was written before A.D.70) seems to address this very subject when it states “the Lord is not slack concerning his promise”. I think the “long suffering to us-ward” is to be equated with the shortening of the days of vengeance and “not willing that any should perish” is to be equated with the sake of the elect. If we are currently in the last 3 1/2 year period then there must still be some kind of tribulation. I think this tribulation is the fact that Israel is blind in part until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

   Matthew 24:34 states that this generation shall not pass, until all these things be fulfilled. In Matthew 1:17 there are 14 generations from Abraham to David, 14 from David to the exile to Babylon, and 14 from the exile to Babylon to Christ. In Luke 1:32-33 Christ is given the throne of David and reigns forever. If the generations are viewed as time periods during certain individual’s lives and Christ lives and reigns forever then this statement can be referring to many human generations.

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3 hours ago, Grafted Branch said:

I attribute the accounts of the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 and the transgression of desolation in Daniel 8:13 to Antiochus Epiphanies. There certainly seems to be similarities to the Antichrist or Satan himself but because of the context of the verses surrounding them I place them as occurring prior to Christ’s birth.

   In Daniel 12:11-12 the daily shall be taken away, that is the necessity to provide the daily sacrifices as outlined in Exodus 29:38-39 which was 2 lambs, 1 in the morning and 1 in the evening. The point at which this occurred is in John 1:29 where Jesus was declared to be the lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. There are 1290 days until the abomination that maketh desolate is set up. The first sacrifice made after the veil of the temple was torn in two would be considered an abomination. In Matthew 27:51 along with the veil being torn there was an earthquake and the rocks rent. I think the altar used to make the sacrifices was broken down. In Matthew 24:15 the abomination is standing in the holy place, this is the altar being put back up and sacrifices resumed. Blessed is he that waiteth and cometh to the 1335 days. This is Pentecost and is recorded in Acts 2. The difference between 1290 and 1335 is 45 days, it would’ve taken some time to put the temple back in order and resume sacrifices after the veil was torn and the earthquake.

   In Daniel 9:26-27 Messiah is cut off after 62 weeks or sevens. This implies that the event of the cross happens during the next seven. In the midst of the seven he shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease. This is the veil being torn in two and the earthquake. I think this caused the sacrifices to physically cease for a short period of time. If the 70 sevens in Daniel 9:24 are continuous and there isn’t a parenthetical time period in between the 69th seven and 70th seven then a problem arises. If the 69 sevens are actual years and up to the 3 1/2 mark of the last seven are actual years (the event of the cross) then why is Jerusalem destroyed in A.D.70 and not sooner?

 

The Olivet Discourse 

 

   In Matthew 24:29 it states that the sun will be darkened, the moon shall not give light and the stars shall fall from heaven, immediately after the tribulation of those days. Luke 21:24 has the Gentiles treading down Jerusalem until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled, this happens before the event of the signs in the sun, moon, and stars. In Revelation 11:2 Gentiles tread the holy city under foot for 42 months. If the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D.70 is the event in Luke 21:20 and if this event would’ve happened at the same time as the abomination of desolation, then after 42 months of the Gentiles treading down Jerusalem the signs in the sun,moon, and stars would come to pass. This would line up with the 70 sevens determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city in Daniel 9:24 and all the years could be viewed as actual, continuous years. We know these events didn’t happen this way.

   Matthew 24 and Mark 13 both record the statement except those days be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. Luke 21:22 states that these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. In Isaiah 53:10, which is speaking of Christ, it states “when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days”. By implication if the days of vengeance are shortened then the days without vengeance will be prolonged. The statement that the days will be shortened isn’t recorded in Luke and I think the days being prolonged have been incorporated into it. I think this is why the account in Luke doesn’t use the term “abomination of desolation” but says “when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies” and also includes Jerusalem being trodden down of the Gentiles.

   2 Peter 3:8-9 (which in all likelihood was written before A.D.70) seems to address this very subject when it states “the Lord is not slack concerning his promise”. I think the “long suffering to us-ward” is to be equated with the shortening of the days of vengeance and “not willing that any should perish” is to be equated with the sake of the elect. If we are currently in the last 3 1/2 year period then there must still be some kind of tribulation. I think this tribulation is the fact that Israel is blind in part until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

   Matthew 24:34 states that this generation shall not pass, until all these things be fulfilled. In Matthew 1:17 there are 14 generations from Abraham to David, 14 from David to the exile to Babylon, and 14 from the exile to Babylon to Christ. In Luke 1:32-33 Christ is given the throne of David and reigns forever. If the generations are viewed as time periods during certain individual’s lives and Christ lives and reigns forever then this statement can be referring to many human generations.

Matthew 24 in the Olivet discourse is about the "Second Coming" of Jesus Christ as seen in the question in verse 3. We know we'll this event is future, and hasn't taken place.

 

You will closely note that the event in verse 15 in Daniels Abomination Of Desolation causes the Great Tribulation in verse 21?

 

You will closely note in verse 29 that the event of the "Second Coming" takes place "Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days"

 

You will closely note in verse 30 "They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming"?

 

As is clearly shown, the preterist scheme of the Olivet discourse being fulfilled is impossible, because the three events are all tied together, inseparable.

 

You can't have a fulfilled "Great Tribulation" 2,000 years ago, and Jesus Christ being seen returning in the clouds "Immediately After This Tribulation"?

 

1. Verse 15, The Abomination of Desolation.

 

2. Verse 21, The Great Tribulation.

 

3. Verse 30, The Second Advent, They Shall See The Son Of Man.

 

"This Generation" is the future generation that will be eye witnesses to the future "Second Advent"

 

The early church fathers, Justin Martyr 100-165AD, Iranaeus 140-202AD, Hippolytus of Rome 170-235AD all taught the three events mentioned as future from their 2nd and 3rd century lives.

 

They didn't see Antiochus Epiphanes 175-164BC or Titus 66-70AD as the Antichrist, or these events fulfilling the Abomination of Desolation or Great Tribulation.

 

Early Church Fathers On The Antichrist?

 

As is clearly seen, the abomination of desolation, great tribulation, and second advent, are all tied together inseparable, and are future events unfulfilled.

 

Matthew 24:3KJV 

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

 

Matthew 24:15-21KJV

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

Matthew 24:29-31KJV

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Edited by Truth7t7

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4 hours ago, Truth7t7 said:

Matthew 24 in the Olivet discourse is about the "Second Coming" of Jesus Christ as seen in the question in verse 3. We know we'll this event is future, and hasn't taken place.

 

You will closely note that the event in verse 15 in Daniels Abomination Of Desolation causes the Great Tribulation in verse 21?

 

You will closely note in verse 29 that the event of the "Second Coming" takes place "Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days"

 

You will closely note in verse 30 "They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming"?

 

As is clearly shown, the preterist scheme of the Olivet discourse being fulfilled is impossible, because the three events are all tied together, inseparable.

 

You can't have a fulfilled "Great Tribulation" 2,000 years ago, and Jesus Christ being seen returning in the clouds "Immediately After This Tribulation"?

 

1. Verse 15, The Abomination of Desolation.

 

2. Verse 21, The Great Tribulation.

 

3. Verse 30, The Second Advent, They Shall See The Son Of Man.

 

"This Generation" is the future generation that will be eye witnesses to the future "Second Advent"

 

The early church fathers, Justin Martyr 100-165AD, Iranaeus 140-202AD, Hippolytus of Rome 170-235AD all taught the three events mentioned as future from their 2nd and 3rd century lives.

 

They didn't see Antiochus Epiphanes 175-164BC or Titus 66-70AD as the Antichrist, or these events fulfilling the Abomination of Desolation or Great Tribulation.

 

Early Church Fathers On The Antichrist?

 

As is clearly seen, the abomination of desolation, great tribulation, and second advent, are all tied together inseparable, and are future events unfulfilled.

 

Matthew 24:3KJV 

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

 

Matthew 24:15-21KJV

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

Matthew 24:29-31KJV

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I did address Matthew 24:29 and my view is that we are still in the tribulation period which is prior to the signs in the sun, moon, and stars. In my opinion part of this tribulation is Israel being blind in part until the fullness of the Gentiles. Matthew 24:30 hasn’t occurred yet. The tribulation hasn’t been fulfilled, that happens when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

 

I have 2 questions for you.

 

1. If the abomination of desolation is still future how is Daniel 12:11-12 interpreted? There are 1290 days from the time the daily is taken away and the abomination of desolation is set up.

2. If the tribulation starts with the signing of a 7 year treaty then people can know from that point forward the day and possibly the hour of Christ’s coming. If the days are shortened and this prevents knowing that day, then the full 70 sevens that were determined in Daniel 9:24 won’t be fulfilled. How do you solve this conflict?

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8 hours ago, Grafted Branch said:

I did address Matthew 24:29 and my view is that we are still in the tribulation period which is prior to the signs in the sun, moon, and stars. In my opinion part of this tribulation is Israel being blind in part until the fullness of the Gentiles. Matthew 24:30 hasn’t occurred yet. The tribulation hasn’t been fulfilled, that happens when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

 

I have 2 questions for you.

 

1. If the abomination of desolation is still future how is Daniel 12:11-12 interpreted? There are 1290 days from the time the daily is taken away and the abomination of desolation is set up.

2. If the tribulation starts with the signing of a 7 year treaty then people can know from that point forward the day and possibly the hour of Christ’s coming. If the days are shortened and this prevents knowing that day, then the full 70 sevens that were determined in Daniel 9:24 won’t be fulfilled. How do you solve this conflict?

In Daniel 12:11-12 below you have 1290 days, and 1335 days, no man knows the "Day or Hour" Of the second advent, we will know the season as in the fig tree putting forth it's leaves?

 

Daniel 12:11-12KJV

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

 

You reference 70 sevens?

 

I believe these are future literal days that will be seen in rebuilding Jerusalem, unfulfilled.

 

You can't escape the fact that the second advent is seen in Matthew 24:30, and this take place "Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days" seen in Matthew 24:21

 

You can't have a tribulation taking place 2,000 years ago, and a second advent taking place immediately after this?

 

Let's look at Daniel 12:1-2 below, verse one states there will be a time of trouble never seen since there was a nation?

 

This is the Great Tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21, exactly the same and the wording is the same. 

 

The verses then state at the time of this great tribulation the resurrection and final judgment takes place?

 

"Many of the that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake"?

 

"Every one that shall be found written in the book"?

 

As is clearly shown, this is a future great tribulation that hasn't taken place, because the scripture teaches the second advent, resurrection of all, and final judgment takes place.

 

Daniel 12 King James Version (KJV)

12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

Matthew 25:21KJV

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Edited by Truth7t7

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8 hours ago, Truth7t7 said:

In Daniel 12:11-12 below you have 1290 days, and 1335 days, no man knows the "Day or Hour" Of the second advent, we will know the season as in the fig tree putting forth it's leaves?

 

Daniel 12:11-12KJV

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

 

You reference 70 sevens?

 

I believe these are future literal days that will be seen in rebuilding Jerusalem, unfulfilled.

 

You can't escape the fact that the second advent is seen in Matthew 24:30, and this take place "Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days" seen in Matthew 24:21

 

You can't have a tribulation taking place 2,000 years ago, and a second advent taking place immediately after this?

 

Let's look at Daniel 12:1-2 below, verse one states there will be a time of trouble never seen since there was a nation?

 

This is the Great Tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21, exactly the same and the wording is the same. 

 

The verses then state at the time of this great tribulation the resurrection and final judgment takes place?

 

"Many of the that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake"?

 

"Every one that shall be found written in the book"?

 

As is clearly shown, this is a future great tribulation that hasn't taken place, because the scripture teaches the second advent, resurrection of all, and final judgment takes place.

 

Daniel 12 King James Version (KJV)

12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

Matthew 25:21KJV

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

I’m not sure you understand my position on this subject. We are currently in the tribulation period in Matthew 24:21. I’m not trying to escape the fact that immediately after this tribulation the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, and the stars fall from heaven. I agree these events happen this way. It can be considered a great tribulation because of the fact that it is lasting 2000 years and it will never be repeated again.

 

I would like to rephrase my questions.

 

1. I understand you place Daniel 12:11-12 as a future event. How does the number of days specifically fit into the tribulation period?

2. It appears you place all 70 sevens in Daniel 9:24 as future events, is this correct? If so then how do you explain Daniel 9:25 where it says from the going forth of the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem unto Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks? If these are literal weeks then people can know the day and possibly the hour of Christ’s coming. In Matthew 24:36 it states of that day and hour knoweth no man.

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6 hours ago, Grafted Branch said:

I’m not sure you understand my position on this subject. We are currently in the tribulation period in Matthew 24:21. I’m not trying to escape the fact that immediately after this tribulation the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, and the stars fall from heaven. I agree these events happen this way. It can be considered a great tribulation because of the fact that it is lasting 2000 years and it will never be repeated again.

 

I would like to rephrase my questions.

 

1. I understand you place Daniel 12:11-12 as a future event. How does the number of days specifically fit into the tribulation period?

2. It appears you place all 70 sevens in Daniel 9:24 as future events, is this correct? If so then how do you explain Daniel 9:25 where it says from the going forth of the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem unto Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks? If these are literal weeks then people can know the day and possibly the hour of Christ’s coming. In Matthew 24:36 it states of that day and hour knoweth no man.

I strongly disagree that "The Great Tribulation" seen in Matthew 24:21 is 2,000 years long.

 

Matthew 24:15 in the Abomination of Desolation starts this tribulation, they both are future events.

 

Daniel 12:11-12 designates two different times, one 1290 days, the other 1335 days, this dose'nt reveal the day or hour, no theologian or prophecy expert can say otherwise.

 

The future tribulation will be 1260 days or 42 months long, not 7 years as is commonly taught, as Revelation 11:2 in 1260 days & Revelation 13:5 in 42 months is the same.time frame.

 

I believe Daniel 9:25-27 are future 70 literal weeks, 7 weeks of planning to build, 62 weeks of literally building.the wall and street, Messiah will be cut.off.when the building is stopped and the armies surround Jerusalem, in the middle of this 70th week the Antichrist will be revealed, and Daniels Abomination will take place. The 1260 day/42 month tribulation starts. 

 

As is clearly seen below, those that see the future "Abomination" verse 15 will be part of "The Great Tribulation" verse 21

 

These are future events unfulfilled, as the Abomination causes The Great Tribulation, and Jesus Christ returns immediately after this tribulation.

 

Early Church Fathers On The Antichrist?

 

And to top it off once again, the early church fathers saw a future antichrist, and Great Tribulation from their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th century lives.

 

They didn't see fulfillment in Antiochus Epiphanes in 175-164BC or Titus in 66-70AD 

 

Matthew 24:15-21KJV

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Truth7t7

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18 hours ago, Truth7t7 said:

I strongly disagree that "The Great Tribulation" seen in Matthew 24:21 is 2,000 years long.

 

Matthew 24:15 in the Abomination of Desolation starts this tribulation, they both are future events.

 

Daniel 12:11-12 designates two different times, one 1290 days, the other 1335 days, this dose'nt reveal the day or hour, no theologian or prophecy expert can say otherwise.

 

The future tribulation will be 1260 days or 42 months long, not 7 years as is commonly taught, as Revelation 11:2 in 1260 days & Revelation 13:5 in 42 months is the same.time frame.

 

I believe Daniel 9:25-27 are future 70 literal weeks, 7 weeks of planning to build, 62 weeks of literally building.the wall and street, Messiah will be cut.off.when the building is stopped and the armies surround Jerusalem, in the middle of this 70th week the Antichrist will be revealed, and Daniels Abomination will take place. The 1260 day/42 month tribulation starts. 

 

As is clearly seen below, those that see the future "Abomination" verse 15 will be part of "The Great Tribulation" verse 21

 

These are future events unfulfilled, as the Abomination causes The Great Tribulation, and Jesus Christ returns immediately after this tribulation.

 

Early Church Fathers On The Antichrist?

 

And to top it off once again, the early church fathers saw a future antichrist, and Great Tribulation from their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th century lives.

 

They didn't see fulfillment in Antiochus Epiphanes in 175-164BC or Titus in 66-70AD 

 

Matthew 24:15-21KJV

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

 

 

 

Your answer seems to be irrational. You have identified the abomination of desolation as taking place in the middle of the 70th week. Using simple arithmetic anyone can place the 1290 days prior to the abomination and 45 days after it. Why can’t you understand Daniel 12:11-12? If your understanding of the abomination of desolation prevents this then your view on this matter must be discounted. I think your view simply can’t come up with a reasonable explanation for these verses. You seem to put a lot of emphasis on the early church fathers, what did they say specifically about Daniel 12:11-12?

   You again have avoided the problem of no one knowing the day or hour. Using Daniel 9:26 and your own interpretation it is possible to know when Messiah comes. A commandment will be issued to rebuild Jerusalem and exactly 69 weeks later Messiah comes. How do you explain this?

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If anyone is interested there is one other point that I think I should have included in the original post. In Daniel 9:27 he shall confirm the covenant with many for 1 seven. I equate this confirming of the covenant with the going forth of the gospel. Jesus starts preaching in Matthew 4:17. I think there are 30 days in between this and John 1:29 where he is declared to be the Lamb of God. This puts the abomination of desolation at the exact middle of the last seven. The veil being torn and sacrifices ceased would be several days prior to this but still could be considered the midst of the seven. This would then allow for the 42 months of the Gentiles treading down Jerusalem to complete the last seven. This would also line up with Matthew 24:14 where it states this gospel shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

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Staff

Who ever builds a temple be it Jews or mormons it is not holy because God does not dwell in temples built by man. When our Saviour died the vale ripped opening the Holy of Holies to the people. Some years later the whole temple was destroyed .. I do not understand why folks want to rebuild what God destroyed 

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38 minutes ago, Becky said:

I do not understand why folks want to rebuild what God destroyed

The old temple will not be rebuilt but the last part of Ezekiel shows that God will command a new temple to be built during the Millennium.

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In your opinion will God dwell in that temple? 

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45 minutes ago, theophilus said:

The old temple will not be rebuilt but the last part of Ezekiel shows that God will command a new temple to be built during the Millennium.

There will be no Millenium on this earth, Jesus Christ returns immediately after the future "Great Tribulation" in final judgment.

 

The kingdom seen in Ezekiel 47:12 is the "Eternal Kingdom" also seen in Revelation 22:1-2

 

Same river of life, same tree of life, same fruit yielded every month, same leaves of the tree for healing/medicine.

 

"The Eternal Kingdom"

 

Ezekiel 47:12KJV

12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

 

Revelation 22:1-2KJV

22 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Edited by Truth7t7

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10 hours ago, Becky said:

Who ever builds a temple be it Jews or mormons it is not holy because God does not dwell in temples built by man. When our Saviour died the vale ripped opening the Holy of Holies to the people. Some years later the whole temple was destroyed .. I do not understand why folks want to rebuild what God destroyed 

I fully agree 100%, God will no longer dwell in temples made by hands, Jesus in his death, burial, and resurrection ripped the veil, he died once for the sins of the world.

 

However I believe there could very well be a future temple built by Jews that have denied Jesus Christ and are awaiting upon a future messiah, aka the antichrist.

 

The Jews in Judaism hold as the foundation of their current belief in a rebuilt temple, renewed Levitical Priesthood, and animal sacrifice, will it happen, possibly?

 

Will this be blessed by God?

 

Absolutely not, as Jesus Christ was the perfect sacrificial Lamb of God.

 

Isaiah 66:1-4 strongly suggest a rebuilding of a future temple and renewed animal sacrifice?

 

Verses 1-2 God is condeming a temple being made unto him?

 

Verse 3 Shows renewed animal sacrifice, and God's condemnation of this as abomination?

 

That's what I believe is seen in the verses below?

 

Isaiah 66 King James Version (KJV)

66 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

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A temple that is not blessed by God will not have a 'holy place' 

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2 hours ago, Becky said:

A temple that is not blessed by God will not have a 'holy place' 

I don't see your point, and who you are responding to without a quote referenced.

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2 hours ago, Becky said:

A temple that is not blessed by God will not have a 'holy place' 

 

10 minutes ago, Truth7t7 said:

I don't see your point, and who you are responding to without a quote referenced.

Why cant you read my mind ? :classic_wacko:   

 

A temple not blessed by god will not have a holy place that can be desecrated .. That is my point. .... as to who it was mostly a general statement to anyone reading. ..

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On 12/15/2018 at 11:55 AM, Becky said:

In your opinion will God dwell in that temple? 

As the glory of the Lord entered the temple by the gate facing east, the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the temple.

Ezekiel 43:4,5 ESV

 

On 12/15/2018 at 12:16 PM, Truth7t7 said:

The kingdom seen in Ezekiel 47:12 is the "Eternal Kingdom" also seen in Revelation 22:1-2

The Eternal Kingdom that John saw will not have a temple.

 

And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb.

Revelation 21:22 ESV

 

On 12/15/2018 at 9:47 PM, Truth7t7 said:

Isaiah 66 King James Version (KJV)

66 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

God was condemning the offering of sacrifices without genuine faith in God.

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35 minutes ago, theophilus said:
On 12/15/2018 at 9:55 AM, Becky said:

In your opinion will God dwell in that temple? 

As the glory of the Lord entered the temple by the gate facing east, the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the temple.

Ezekiel 43:4,5 ESV

Not understanding how the Scripture quote answers the question. Could be the question was not complete .   You said this

Quote

 The old temple will not be rebuilt but the last part of Ezekiel shows that God will command a new temple to be built during the Millennium.

Act 7:48  Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 
Act 17:24  God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Again i ask if you believe god will dwell in a temple? 

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2 minutes ago, Becky said:

Act 7:48  Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 
Act 17:24  God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Again i ask if you believe god will dwell in a temple? 

If God doesn't need a temple to dwell in now, he didn't need one in the past either, and yet he ordered Solomon to build a temple for him.  He will do the same thing during the Millennium.  

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Do you believe they priesthood wilt again establish blood sacrifices ?

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OK we completely disagree on this. Thank you for answering  directly .🙂  My reasons for disagreeing is found in reading the Book of Hebrews ,

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21 minutes ago, Becky said:

OK we completely disagree on this. Thank you for answering  directly .🙂  My reasons for disagreeing is found in reading the Book of Hebrews ,

I love that answer.

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