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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Emekrus

“About Divine Healing and Health”

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59 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

You don't need to say it. Your unbiblical position says it for you.  If you do not have enough faith, you will not be healed.

 

Then you use an excuse for people who "must have had faith" when they get sick anyway because it was God's exception to that rule.   God does not promise to heal in this lifetime. Period, end of story.

I admit, I expected that retort from him but I see now that he is doing his best to refrain from addressing my points from Life's Experiances.  That one, irrevokable, failure of address speaks in a mighty fashion of the weakness of his points and his inability to support his position through the wholeness of scripture.  His position, by this failure, is foisted into the forefront, of denying the wholeness of scripture by his open denial of

Scripture: Philippians 3:1–14    Topic: Suffering

Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things again is no trouble to me, and it is a safeguard for you. Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the law, found blameless. But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish in order that I may gain Christ, and may be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings, being conformed to his death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained it, or have already become perfect, but I press on in order that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.  And others such as Acts 14:22.  The very idea of being called to the Most Honorable Position of Suffering For My Christ is repulsive to both Semi and Non-Believers.  The very idea of such service being called a great honor is a threat to their Man Made Faith Construct.

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20 hours ago, Becky said:

Read my post again i did not say you said his faith was weak. My words

 

you mock his faith, shame on you   as if they are weak 

 

Your whole post reads to  what you think of others faith. 

Well, its sad you understand my post that way but I don't see how it mocks Bill Taylor's faith in anyway in particular perhaps you could point it out for clarity.

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5 minutes ago, Emekrus said:

Well, its sad you understand my post that way but I don't see how it mocks Bill Taylor's faith in anyway in particular perhaps you could point it out for clarity. 

Let's just say, for an example, that Bill Taylor is very sick. Now the question put to you, "why" is Bill very ill?

 

I'd like to share something with you, Emekrus. These are the kinds of people we get promoting miraculous or faith healing:

 

 

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17 hours ago, davidtaylorjr said:

You don't need to say it. Your unbiblical position says it for you.  If you do not have enough faith, you will not be healed.

 

Then you use an excuse for people who "must have had faith" when they get sick anyway because it was God's exception to that rule.   God does not promise to heal in this lifetime. Period, end of story.

Well,

 

If you say God does not promise to heal in this lifetime, when does he?

I guess your answer will be paradise or you may call it other names.

 

But if that is your answer, how come the Apostles of Jesus in the book of acts had great and remarkable healing ministries?

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13 minutes ago, Emekrus said:

But if that is your answer, how come the Apostles of Jesus in the book of acts had great and remarkable healing ministries?

Thought you'd never ask, the healing wasn't a ministry but a sign to authenticate the office of Apostle. The office of Prophet and Apostle do not exists any longer, they are closed offices. Certain gifts were only for a time during the building up of the church. The office of Prophet and Apostle revealed God's word. The revelatory process has now ceased after the closing of the canon. That is, lest you suggest that Scripture is still being written? And if so by whom, and can they perform a miracle such as healing in order to authenticate their office? There is no more revelation (Prophet and Apostle) but there is only illumination (Pastor, Teacher, Evangelist, etc).

 

For example,

 

1 Corinthians 13:9-10 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.

 

"The imperfect" things mentioned in verses 9-10 prophecy, tongues, and knowledge - are incomplete means of revelation, all relating to God's making his will known to the church. "The perfect" in this context must refer to something in the same category as the "imperfect" things. Therefore, "the perfect" in this context must refer to a means of revelation, but a completed one. And this completed means of God's making his will known to his church is Scripture. Conclusion: When "the perfect comes" refers to the time when the canon of Scripture will be complete.

 

1 Corinthians 13:12 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

 

Note: this is not to say that "the perfect" refers exactly to the canon of Scripture, but rather to "the completed revelatory process" that resulted in Scripture. Furthermore, in verse 12 in response to any objection raised to seeing God face to face, it simply means seeing "plainly" as opposed to "obscurely."

 

Again, the miraculous healing exampled in Scripture was to provide signs and wonders to authenticate the office of Prophet or Apostle.

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10 minutes ago, William said:

Let's just say, for an example, that Bill Taylor is very sick. Now the question put to you, "why" is Bill very ill?

 

I'd like to share something with you, Emekrus. These are the kinds of people we get promoting miraculous or faith healing:

 

 

Well,

I am not with Bill Taylor. And of course, I am not God. How can I decipher "why"?

 

I did state in my post that Christians can be sick. You can read the OP again to confirm.

 

And as for the material you shared.

 

There are certainly extremes to every to every doctrine. And that doesn't automatically falsify the doctrine.

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3 minutes ago, William said:

Thought you'd never ask, the healing wasn't a ministry but a sign to authenticate the office of Apostle. The office of Prophet and Apostle do not exists any longer, they are closed offices. Certain gifts were only for a time during the building up of the church. The office of Prophet and Apostle revealed God's word. The revelatory process has now ceased after the closing of the canon. That is, lest you suggest that Scripture is still be written? And if so by whom, and can they perform a miracle such as healing in order to authenticate their office? There is no more revelation (Prophet and Apostle) but there is only illumination (Pastor, Teacher, Evangelist, etc).

 

For example,

 

1 Corinthians 13:9-10 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.

 

"The imperfect" things mentioned in verses 9-10 prophecy, tongues, and knowledge - are incomplete means of revelation, all relating to God's making his will known to the church. "The perfect" in this context must refer to something in the same category as the "imperfect" things. Therefore, "the perfect" in this context must refer to a means of revelation, but a completed one. And this completed means of God's making his will known to his church is Scripture. Conclusion: When "the perfect comes" refers to the time when the canon of Scripture will be complete.

 

1 Corinthians 13:12 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

 

Note: this is not to say that "the perfect" refers exactly to the canon of Scripture, but rather to "the completed revelatory process" that resulted in Scripture. Furthermore, in verse 12 in response to any objection raised to seeing God face to face, it simply means seeing "plainly" as opposed to "obscurely."

Brother William,

 

I  see you hold a cessationist view of divine healing. But from other's comments, not every one in this forum hold your view. At least Becky did say she believes in divine healing. Hence, your scriptural interpretation shouldn't be the one to be accepted. And that is even if we are to apply the major rules of hermeneutics.

 

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8 minutes ago, Emekrus said:

Brother William,

 

I  see you hold a cessationist view of divine healing. But from other's comments, not every one in this forum hold your view. At least Becky did say she believes in divine healing. Hence, your scriptural interpretation shouldn't be the one to be accepted. And that is even if we are to apply the major rules of hermeneutics.

 

Seriously, that's your refutation?

 

You haven't shown that you are able to exegete yourself out of a wet paper bag. Have you even considered the crap that comes out of the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement that's making way to your country? Pretty sad that wolves from America promoting that prosperity garbage are fleecing your brothers and sisters. And here you're promoting it.

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, William said:

Seriously, that's your refutation?

 

You haven't shown that you are able to exegete yourself out of a wet paper bag. Have you even considered the crap that comes out of the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement that's made way to your country? Pretty sad that wolves from America promoting that prosperity garbage are fleecing your brothers and sisters. And here you're promoting it.

 

 

 

Crap? Yes, that's what many call what goes against their faith. But then, that's where forbearance and prayers come in. We don't have to always agree.

If you think someone is missing it, perhaps a better attitude born in love may be very effective.

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28 minutes ago, Emekrus said:

We don't have to always agree.

I disagree.

 

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1 hour ago, Emekrus said:

Well,

 

If you say God does not promise to heal in this lifetime, when does he?

I guess your answer will be paradise or you may call it other names.

 

But if that is your answer, how come the Apostles of Jesus in the book of acts had great and remarkable healing ministries?

Yes, when we pass to glory. That is the ultimate healing that is promised.  The Apostles did great acts of healing, yes. But in no way did they heal every person who believed. There is no evidence of that and Scripture flat out refutes that. As William said, that was a sign that they were an apostle.

1 hour ago, Emekrus said:

Brother William,

 

I  see you hold a cessationist view of divine healing. But from other's comments, not every one in this forum hold your view. At least Becky did say she believes in divine healing. Hence, your scriptural interpretation shouldn't be the one to be accepted. And that is even if we are to apply the major rules of hermeneutics.

 

I believe in divine healing. But true divine healing is not what you are describing. You are describing something that is nowhere found in Scripture. So no, YOUR interpretation should not be accepted because it is not found in Scripture.  You are not applying the rules of proper hermeneutics. You aren't practicing hermeneutics at all. You read something and say, "Hey, a lot of people were healed in the Bible so we can all be healed if we just have the faith, but if that doesn't work it isn't because we didn't had faith, we were a special exception to the faith rule and got sick anyway."  In short, that's a bunch of hogwash.

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