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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Emekrus

“About Divine Healing and Health”

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That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the Prophet, saying, himself took our infirmities, and bare our sickness”—Matthew 8:17

 

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and BE IN HEALTH, even as thy soul prospereth”—3John2

 

For the sake of this discuss, two scriptural texts from two Apostles (Matthew and John) have been provided. Because a matter must be established in the mouth of two or three witnesses. In the first opening text, Matthew by the Spirit tells us that Jesus’ healing acts in the preceding verses were a fulfilment of Isaiah’s prophecy concerning Jesus’ Atonement for our healing and health.

 

It says “himself took our infirmities, and bare our sickness”. And of course, if Jesus took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses, then our infirmities and sicknesses are gone.

 

 Then for the second opening text from John, the scripture is also very straight-forward. John by the Spirit says “He wish above all things that we may prosper and be in health, even as our soul prospers”. The word ‘wish’ as used by John in the above scriptural quote, is from the Greek word, ‘euchomai’ meaning ‘to wish’. Which by implication means: to pray to God or to will.

 

And since these John wishes or prayers were motivated by the Holy Ghost, it means John was praying the topmost will of God for us believers. And amongst these topmost will of God that John prayed for, is health. So we can safely again assert that divine health (amongst others) is God’s topmost desire for his children.

 

With the above two scriptures, every believer can confidently trust God for their perfect health and healing at all times. And of course, this becomes the rule.

 

So Can a Believer Be Sick?

 

Having established from the two opening text above, that perfect health and healing is the believer’s heritage in Christ Jesus, the very next question that quickly comes to mind is ‘can a believer be sick?’ The answer to the above question is yes. A believer in Christ Jesus can be sick or challenged in his health. And that is why part of the health providence of Jesus is called ‘healing’. Of course, your health has to be challenged for you to get healed.

 

But in as much as a believer’s health can be challenged. The believer can by his faith in the healing atonement of Christ, as we have discussed earlier, deny the fact that he is sick.  Even when the symptoms are very glaring…

 

 When he does that, he is walking by faith and scriptural understanding. The believer who denies being sick even with symptoms of sickness, is not to be judged as a liar. Any more than the believer who confesses that he is righteous, even though he fails sometimes and repents would be called a liar.

 

To call a person talking by faith a liar, is to be judging from a very high level of spiritual parochialism.

 

When a believer is having a health challenge but says he is not sick or he is strong, he is simply speaking in line with the scripture that says, when I am weak, then am I strong (2 Corinthians 12:10).

 

The person may be lying on hospital bed and yet still maintain his confession of divine health, looking up to God for intervention. And of course, most of the time, God does intervene in response to such faith. Testimonies of such divine interventions abound so much to deny.

 

What About Those That Die Saying They Are Not Sick?

 

A major attack brought against divine healing is the fact that many a believer had said they are not sick. And even confessed they can never be sick. Yet they ended up dying with some ailments. People ask; is that not deception? Well, from scriptures their words and acts can never in any way be called deception.

 

The proper classification of their words and acts is simply faith. Now most of these folks that actually made such confessions actually enjoyed undeniable divine health and healing from God through their faith in God for years. Then eventually some of them couldn’t recover from their health challenges before their death. The reason for such occurrences can vary. Especially, it may be a call home time for them by God…

 

 This may be the reason, for the exceptional overriding of their faith by God. And that does not in any way make their profession and earnestness of faith a deception like many call it.

 

Even when they die like that, they can also be counted as heroes of faith.  Including those who refuse medication for the sake of their faith. Hebrews 11:35 tells us that some of the heroes of faith, were tortured, not accepting deliverance that they might obtain a better resurrection.

 

So to die in one’s earnest faith in God’s word, is never a deception; but rather, a righteous act in commitment to God’s faithfulness.

 

And like I always tell people, we have a better hope of a believer that dies in his earnest faith, than the ones who die in unbelief and doubt.

 

Yes, it’s true that many have died believing absolutely in God for their healing and health. But many more have died in unbelief and doubt.

 

What About The Unbelieving Believers?

 

Most of the attacks and criticism against those who believe in divine healing even unto death come from the group of believers who don’t believe in divine healing. Most of them once believed in divine healing and health. But like the folks with stony hearts in Jesus’ parable, when they faced some tribulations and persecution, concerning their faith in divine healing, they were offended.

 

Then consequently, they begin to bring up one baseless attack after the other against the healing gospel. They say, ‘Many believe in divine health and healing yet they get sick and die; so the healing and health doctrine is false’. And yet with the massive failure of medical science, they still have great confidence in it…

 

Even much more than God’s word. When they or someone gets any health challenge, it never occur to them to look up to God first for divine healing. Instead, they first run to the hospital. And when medical science eventually fails them, in self-justification, they claim the sickness is their thorn in the flesh.

 

 They claim such things just to attract pity from people. Instead of repenting of their unbelief so God can heal them…

 

They say their ailments are thorns from God, yet they keep on investing a larger share of their income in medicine. But I find that absurd. If someone claims his ailment is God’s will, why then fight the ailment with much assiduousness with medicine?

 

Some even get off medical science to witchcraft science. Some run to self-help materials to help themselves. Some to hypnotherapy. While some others run to one of the many new-age healing practices for relief. A cousin of mine told me of how a sick Pastor died in the hand of a witch doctor while he went to him for treatment…

Instead of believing solely in the healing and health provision of God unto death. I have often told people. I live above sickness and diseases. Because Christ had taken them away from me. And I will keep on confessing that even if I am lying down on the basis of health challenge. And I will keep on with that confession even when I’m about to take my last breath on the basis of health challenge…

 

Anyone that wants to mock is very welcome. But I will believe and confess the Lord’s word unto death. I will never twist scriptures to align with my experiences or failures instead of the undiluted word of God.

 

In conclusion… God’s desire for all his children is perfect health and healing. And he had already sufficiently provided for it through the stripes of Jesus. As such, divine health and healing for every believer, is the rule. And that being so, for other reasons, the believers health can be challenged…

 

And of course, this becomes the exception to the rule of divine health. Then even when this exception occur in the life of a believer, the believer can resist the health challenge by faith and divine wisdom even unto death to the honour and glory of God.

 

Remain Blessed!

 

Emeke Odili.

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Neither of the verses you posted say 'perfect health' .  

1 hour ago, Emekrus said:

God’s desire for all his children is perfect health and healing

When i read or hear things like above i am reminded of Jimmy Swaggat and Oral Roberts praying for healing while wearing their glasses. The other TV faith healers who have had face lifts, or sell 'youthful supplements' .  I believe in divine healing . I also understand the God given wisdom of the medical profession .  I pray young man you never have a injury such as a broken bone.  Or the want of glasses or dental work. A wife in need of a cesarean . Hoping there is not a need for the polio vaccine, and many others. Please dont be in a place where you have the need to call for help.   When we deny the wisdom God has given to the medical profession are we then denying His will . In scripture we see Luke is a doctor and we see no place where God tells him to stop his practice. I believe what is in the Word has meaning or it would not be there.  As in the story and  Scripture below He often uses us. 

 

I Sent You a Rowboat

A very religious man was once caught in rising floodwaters. He climbed onto the roof of his house and trusted God to rescue him. A neighbour came by in a canoe and said, “The waters will soon be above your house. Hop in and we’ll paddle to safety.”

“No thanks” replied the religious man. “I’ve prayed to God and I’m sure he will save me”

A short time later the police came by in a boat. “The waters will soon be above your house. Hop in and we’ll take you to safety.”

“No thanks” replied the religious man. “I’ve prayed to God and I’m sure he will save me”

A little time later a rescue services helicopter hovered overhead, let down a rope ladder and said. “The waters will soon be above your house. Climb the ladder and we’ll fly you to safety.”

“No thanks” replied the religious man. “I’ve prayed to God and I’m sure he will save me”

All this time the floodwaters continued to rise, until soon they reached above the roof and the religious man drowned. When he arrived at heaven he demanded an audience with God. Ushered into God’s throne room he said, “Lord, why am I here in heaven? I prayed for you to save me, I trusted you to save me from that flood.”

“Yes you did my child” replied the Lord. “And I sent you a canoe, a boat and a helicopter. But you never got in.”

Source: unknown.

 

Luk 10:30  And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. 
Luk 10:31  And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 
Luk 10:32  And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. 
Luk 10:33  But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, 
Luk 10:34  And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 
Luk 10:35  And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. 
Luk 10:36  Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? 
Luk 10:37  And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise. 
 

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2 hours ago, Emekrus said:

But in as much as a believer’s health can be challenged. The believer can by his faith in the healing atonement of Christ, as we have discussed earlier, deny the fact that he is sick.  Even when the symptoms are very glaring…

 

 Paul didn't deny Trophimus was sick but expressly stated, "but Trophimus I left sick at Miletus" (2 Timothy 4:20).

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27 minutes ago, Becky said:

Neither of the verses you posted say 'perfect health' .  

When i read or hear things like above i am reminded of Jimmy Swaggat and Oral Roberts praying for healing while wearing their glasses. The other TV faith healers who have had face lifts, or sell 'youthful supplements' .  I believe in divine healing . I also understand the God given wisdom of the medical profession .  I pray young man you never have a injury such as a broken bone.  Or the want of glasses or dental work. A wife in need of a cesarean . Hoping there is not a need for the polio vaccine, and many others. Please dont be in a place where you have the need to call for help.   When we deny the wisdom God has given to the medical profession are we then denying His will . In scripture we see Luke is a doctor and we see no place where God tells him to stop his practice. I believe what is in the Word has meaning or it would not be there.  As in the story and  Scripture below He often uses us. 

 

I Sent You a Rowboat

A very religious man was once caught in rising floodwaters. He climbed onto the roof of his house and trusted God to rescue him. A neighbour came by in a canoe and said, “The waters will soon be above your house. Hop in and we’ll paddle to safety.”

“No thanks” replied the religious man. “I’ve prayed to God and I’m sure he will save me”

A short time later the police came by in a boat. “The waters will soon be above your house. Hop in and we’ll take you to safety.”

“No thanks” replied the religious man. “I’ve prayed to God and I’m sure he will save me”

A little time later a rescue services helicopter hovered overhead, let down a rope ladder and said. “The waters will soon be above your house. Climb the ladder and we’ll fly you to safety.”

“No thanks” replied the religious man. “I’ve prayed to God and I’m sure he will save me”

All this time the floodwaters continued to rise, until soon they reached above the roof and the religious man drowned. When he arrived at heaven he demanded an audience with God. Ushered into God’s throne room he said, “Lord, why am I here in heaven? I prayed for you to save me, I trusted you to save me from that flood.”

“Yes you did my child” replied the Lord. “And I sent you a canoe, a boat and a helicopter. But you never got in.”

Source: unknown.

 

Luk 10:30  And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. 
Luk 10:31  And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 
Luk 10:32  And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. 
Luk 10:33  But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, 
Luk 10:34  And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 
Luk 10:35  And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. 
Luk 10:36  Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? 
Luk 10:37  And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise. 
 

Well,

 

I was not in anyway saying that medication was a sin. Rather I was talking about the priority given to it instead of walking by faith. Of course, there have been times when I had to use medications alongside my faith. But priority is what I am talking about here.

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6 minutes ago, Faber said:

 

 Paul didn't deny Trophimus was sick but expressly stated, "but Trophimus I left sick at Miletus" (2 Timothy 4:20).

And that doesn't make those who deny it by faith and understanding liars either.

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5 minutes ago, Faber said:

 They could be confused or misinformed.

That shouldn't be the case with fellow believer. A believer is supposed to understand when a fellow believer is talking and acting in faith.

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7 minutes ago, Emekrus said:

That shouldn't be the case with fellow believer. A believer is supposed to understand when a fellow believer is talking and acting in faith.

Yup just like the guy in the flood.

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4 minutes ago, Becky said:

Yup just like the guy in the flood.

No, not like the guy in the flood you just posted his story. That story was just that of insensitivity.

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31 minutes ago, Emekrus said:

Well,

 

I was not in anyway saying that medication was a sin. Rather I was talking about the priority given to it instead of walking by faith. Of course, there have been times when I had to use medications alongside my faith. But priority is what I am talking about here.

Nor did i imply in any way you said medication was a sin. Does another what is in the heart of the Christian on his way to the hospital with his injured child ?  I grew up in  a home that prayer was the FIRST thing. 

1 minute ago, Emekrus said:

No, not like the guy in the flood you just posted his story. That story was just that of insensitivity.

Understanding that story was just that a story are you still not judging to say it was just insensitivity.  Is that  a judgement of the ones who would have rescued or the guy that drowned 

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3 minutes ago, Becky said:

Nor did i imply in any way you said medication was a sin. Does another what is in the heart of the Christian on his way to the hospital with his injured child ?  I grew up in  a home that prayer was the FIRST thing. 

Don't you think we may know what is another's mind through their words, dispositions and actions?

Well, I use to find out allots from many believers that use the hospital and medicine from those three mediums while I contact them.

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3 hours ago, Emekrus said:

That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the Prophet, saying, himself took our infirmities, and bare our sickness”—Matthew 8:17

 

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and BE IN HEALTH, even as thy soul prospereth”—3John2

 

 

3 hours ago, Emekrus said:

With the above two scriptures, every believer can confidently trust God for their perfect health and healing at all times. And of course, this becomes the rule.

Back to the Scriptures.  Which of the verses you quoted say perfect health? 

 

3 hours ago, Emekrus said:

Anyone that wants to mock is very welcome. But I will believe and confess the Lord’s word unto death. I will never twist scriptures to align with my experiences or failures instead of the undiluted word of God.

Twisting Scripture? 

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5 hours ago, Emekrus said:

In conclusion… God’s desire for all his children is perfect health and healing.

Curious, why do you think Paul never asked others to pray for him being delivered from his circumstances or tribulations which may of included persecution and physical suffering especially during captivity? 

 

I mean if your suggestion is God's desire for all Christians let alone Paul wouldn't it make sense for Paul to have asked in prayer for support of what God desires?

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32 minutes ago, Emekrus said:

Don't you think we may know what is another's mind through their words, dispositions and actions?

Well, I use to find out allots from many believers that use the hospital and medicine from those three mediums while I contact them.

My younger brother, I know a secret that Becky and a few others in this world know.  As a young fool I hated YHWH and purposely lived to help others to prove He was not important!  At forty-five I surrendered, in physical and sever mental pain to His Will.  From that day forward I have lived in and for my Elohim, defying foolish people that believed I needed them to teach me things such as how to speak in tongues... as if YHWH were not Elohim enough to have me speak in any form Hew chooses... silly and untaught children, I pray.

 

Back on point for I digress.  My memories, better than fifty years later still disturb my wife's sleep when I scream things such as, "Get in that damned hole before your head is blown off," or I awaken her sobbing because my best friend's head is, eyes wide open, staring at me from the Ammo Box the 81 mm Mortar that hit his chest propelled his head into.

 

And then there are the seventy something scars that are the result of my Immune System trying to turn me off and the Arthritis from the injuries of Combat and my work in the trades building structures.  The lesson I pray you learn from and about the scriptures is that they are full of Life and Spiritual Applications and there are times when the two stand apart and there are others where they over-lap.

 

You present me with the same image as the, very, short sighted gentleman that thought YHWH needed his help to teach me to speak in the nonsensical gibberish the Tongue
Speakers foment as they run around the inside of their Churches or as they all pretend to be Slain in the Spirit, all to great confusion, edifying no one and nobody following the Instruction of the Word of our Elohim.

 

You see, in spite of these minor trials and temptations considered so tragic or/and devastating to the Lost World, inside and outside the Church, I am completely healed awaiting nothing more than for either one of two possible and soon coming events:

1. My death or

2. The Rapture.

 

I am one hundred percent healed and my motorized chair is just one more tool I use to reach the Lost for Yashuah ha'Mashiah.  And for your thoughtful consideration, if He uses not Christians like me, why are men of God, such as Billy Graham dying?  I'm sorry but from your point of view, death is not healthy.

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15 hours ago, William said:

Curious, why do you think Paul never asked others to pray for him being delivered from his circumstances or tribulations which may of included persecution and physical suffering especially during captivity? 

 

I mean if your suggestion is God's desire for all Christians let alone Paul wouldn't it make sense for Paul to have asked in prayer for support of what God desires?

 Perhaps if you reflect on Jesus' healing ministry, I believe your curiosity can be abated. 

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5 hours ago, Emekrus said:

 Perhaps if you reflect on Jesus' healing ministry, I believe your curiosity can be abated. 

You'll have to excuse me if I use extreme caution when approaching persons that promote "healing" ministries.

 

The below questions which I am re-quoting actually came about after reading your Scriptural reference of 2 Corinthians 12:10,

 

"For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

 

Through Paul's defects the Lord supplied His strength, supplying Paul with whatever He sees to be needful. Ephesians 6:10,

 

"Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might."

 

Paul reminds us to ask from God to supply us from our own deficiencies, and promises that, in answer to our prayers, the power of God will be displayed.

 

However, isn't it intriguing that Paul never asks others to pray so that his tribulation or circumstance are removed?

 

21 hours ago, William said:

Curious, why do you think Paul never asked others to pray for him being delivered from his circumstances or tribulations which may of included persecution and physical suffering especially during captivity? 

 

I mean if your suggestion is God's desire for all Christians let alone Paul wouldn't it make sense for Paul to have asked in prayer for support of what God desires? 

Now your response was this to me:

5 hours ago, Emekrus said:

Perhaps if you reflect on Jesus' healing ministry, I believe your curiosity can be abated. 

As far as I am aware the "gift of healing" only served for a time the purpose to authenticate various offices while the revelatory process was opened. Seems you think one can have perfect health, wealth and/or prosperity without a Cross? Again, don't you find it curious that Paul never asked others to pray for his circumstance or tribulations to be changed during his sanctification?

 

For example, one may pray for John Doe's cancer and totally neglect the spiritual side of John Doe. While focusing in on the physical we may neglect the spiritual. Emphasizing the spiritual is to encourage Mr Doe during his struggle with cancer, that is, pray that his faith may be strengthened and that he may persevere during his circumstance and tribulation. In line with this, Paul doesn't pray for the "cancer" to be removed from his own life. Likewise, doubt isn't cast in to Mr Doe's life because the cancer is serving God's purpose, the means by which John is being strengthened or called to the Lord. God forbid, that so many which are approached by the false prosperity gospel begin to question whether God loves them or whether they lack faith because God refuses to remove the "thorn" from above their brow or side.  Paul prays for his sanctification, that is, being conformed into the image of Christ, bearing all the hardships of the Cross according to the will of God who are called to His purpose.

 

Romans 8:26-30:

26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because 7 the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, 8 for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

 

The ironic thing is that in my personal life I do not grow unless faced with obstacles whether they are physical or spiritual. For example, when I exercise I utilize an obstacle or weight which results in growth. A tribulation provides the same type of growth in our spiritual life, be it from a physical ailment or whatever means God ordains in the life of the believer.

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On 12/3/2018 at 6:35 AM, Emekrus said:

The reason for such occurrences can vary. Especially, it may be a call home time for them by God…

This just sounds like a convenient way to wipe away the fact that your "theology" breaks down here.... In other words, an excuse.  Nowhere does Scripture teach we will be healed from all of our sicknesses in this lifetime and that type of teaching is dangerous.

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@Emekrus There are folks here who hold to Fatih in Jesus , although they have walked through hell they hold the faith.. What you spout is an a front to their Faith. Faith that shines through daily life, these folks have climbed mountains yet you claim because guys like Bill Taylor is bed ridden with MS you mock his faith, shame on you. I speak of Bill because he has publicly spoke .. Others here face, and over come daily obstacles through prayer and faith you speak as if they are weak in Faith again same on you.  

The kind of faith i see in your posts is sad when compared to the this passage 

 

2Co 4:15  For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. 
2Co 4:16  For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 
2Co 4:17  For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; 
2Co 4:18  While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. 

 

Heb_11:1  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 
 

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19 hours ago, Becky said:

@Emekrus There are folks here who hold to Fatih in Jesus , although they have walked through hell they hold the faith.. What you spout is an a front to their Faith. Faith that shines through daily life, these folks have climbed mountains yet you claim because guys like Bill Taylor is bed ridden with MS you mock his faith, shame on you. I speak of Bill because he has publicly spoke .. Others here face, and over come daily obstacles through prayer and faith you speak as if they are weak in Faith again same on you.  

The kind of faith i see in your posts is sad when compared to the this passage 

 

2Co 4:15  For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. 
2Co 4:16  For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 
2Co 4:17  For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; 
2Co 4:18  While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. 

 

Heb_11:1  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 
 

And sorry, may I ask, how did I say his faith was weak? Can you remind me where I said that?

Edited by Emekrus

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20 hours ago, William said:

You'll have to excuse me if I use extreme caution when approaching persons that promote "healing" ministries.

 

The below questions which I am re-quoting actually came about after reading your Scriptural reference of 2 Corinthians 12:10,

 

"For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

 

Through Paul's defects the Lord supplied His strength, supplying Paul with whatever He sees to be needful. Ephesians 6:10,

 

"Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might."

 

Paul reminds us to ask from God to supply us from our own deficiencies, and promises that, in answer to our prayers, the power of God will be displayed.

 

However, isn't it intriguing that Paul never asks others to pray so that his tribulation or circumstance are removed?

 

Now your response was this to me:

As far as I am aware the "gift of healing" only served for a time the purpose to authenticate various offices while the revelatory process was opened. Seems you think one can have perfect health, wealth and/or prosperity without a Cross? Again, don't you find it curious that Paul never asked others to pray for his circumstance or tribulations to be changed during his sanctification?

 

For example, one may pray for John Doe's cancer and totally neglect the spiritual side of John Doe. While focusing in on the physical we may neglect the spiritual. Emphasizing the spiritual is to encourage Mr Doe during his struggle with cancer, that is, pray that his faith may be strengthened and that he may persevere during his circumstance and tribulation. In line with this, Paul doesn't pray for the "cancer" to be removed from his own life. Likewise, doubt isn't cast in to Mr Doe's life because the cancer is serving God's purpose, the means by which John is being strengthened or called to the Lord. God forbid, that so many which are approached by the false prosperity gospel begin to question whether God loves them or whether they lack faith because God refuses to remove the "thorn" from above their brow or side.  Paul prays for his sanctification, that is, being conformed into the image of Christ, bearing all the hardships of the Cross according to the will of God who are called to His purpose.

 

Romans 8:26-30:

26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because 7 the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, 8 for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

 

The ironic thing is that in my personal life I do not grow unless faced with obstacles whether they are physical or spiritual. For example, when I exercise I utilize an obstacle or weight which results in growth. A tribulation provides the same type of growth in our spiritual life, be it from a physical ailment or whatever means God ordains in the life of the believer.

Alright,

Paul requests for prayers here. 

 

Brethren, pray for us.(1Thess 5:25)

 

He wasn't specific. But for sure, prayers are supposed to solve challenges.

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2 hours ago, Emekrus said:

Alright,

Paul requests for prayers here. 

 

Brethren, pray for us.(1Thess 5:25)

 

He wasn't specific. But for sure, prayers are supposed to solve challenges.

No one here is suggesting not praying . God said , remember the Scriptures are God's Word not Paul's. 

 

1Ti 5:23  Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. 


Rom 15:1  We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. 

 

2Co 12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 
2Co 12:8  For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 
2Co 12:9  And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 
2Co 12:10  Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. 
 

The teaching you present both in prosperity and health does not line with the whole of  Scriptures.  

 

Luk_18:22  Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. 


The passage is recorded in the gospels not just once. Following Christ is taking up the cross

 

Mat 16:24  Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 

Mar 8:34  And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 
Mar 10:21  Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. 
Mar 10:22  And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions. 
Luk 9:22  Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day. 
Luk 9:23  And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. 
 

If prosperity is the goal one has missed the mark.  Praise the Lord if you are blessed with all kinds of prosperity . Use your 'talents' wisely and for His glory.  It is very easy for money and power to 'go to our heads' We all have seen the fall of many at the following of mammon.

 

Mat_6:24  No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. 

 

I see in you some fire for the things of the Lord.. Study the whole of His Word do not loose that fire. This is His Kingdom.. 
Rom 14:17  For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

 

Luk 12:29  And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. 
Luk 12:30  For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. 
Luk 12:31  But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you. 
Luk 12:32  Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. 
Luk 12:33  Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. 
Luk 12:34  For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. 
 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Emekrus said:

Alright,

Paul requests for prayers here. 

 

Brethren, pray for us.(1Thess 5:25)

 

He wasn't specific. But for sure, prayers are supposed to solve challenges.

Yes Paul did, but @William never said Paul did not request prayers.

 

William pointed out:

On 12/4/2018 at 8:09 AM, William said:

However, isn't it intriguing that Paul never asks others to pray so that his tribulation or circumstance are removed?

You glossed over Williams point.  Paul never prayed his tribulation or circumstance be removed and 1 Thess 5:25 obviously supports what William said Paul did not do.

 

3 hours ago, Emekrus said:

But for sure, prayers are supposed to solve challenges.

Are they?  Really?  That is the purpose of prayer?  To solve challenges?

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3 hours ago, Emekrus said:

And sorry, may I ask, how did I say his faith was weak? Can you remind me where I said that?

Read my post again i did not say you said his faith was weak. My words

 

you mock his faith, shame on you   as if they are weak 

 

Your whole post reads to  what you think of others faith. 

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6 hours ago, Emekrus said:

And sorry, may I ask, how did I say his faith was weak? Can you remind me where I said that?

You don't need to say it. Your unbiblical position says it for you.  If you do not have enough faith, you will not be healed.

 

Then you use an excuse for people who "must have had faith" when they get sick anyway because it was God's exception to that rule.   God does not promise to heal in this lifetime. Period, end of story.

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51 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

You don't need to say it. Your unbiblical position says it for you.  If you do not have enough faith, you will not be healed.

 

Then you use an excuse for people who "must have had faith" when they get sick anyway because it was God's exception to that rule.   God does not promise to heal in this lifetime. Period, end of story.

Don't mean to drag a dead Arminian into the discussion, but, :classic_rolleyes:

 

1249093_DeadArmininan.gif.f7ac70d7d8fb5ba15e32738b173a86b3.gif

 

Yup, amazing how many even go so far as to suggest it is not only the "act" of faith that heals but saves us. Such people suggests that God is obligated to heal or save rather than understanding grace and saving faith "proper".

 

God bless,

William

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