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Faber

The Minimum Wage

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  I was surprised to see that the Federal Minimum Wage is still at $7.25 an hour. That seems rather meager.

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18 minutes ago, Faber said:

  I was surprised to see that the Federal Minimum Wage is still at $7.25 an hour. That seems rather meager.

Nope, I don't.

 

For example, in California they are pushing a 15 dollar a hour minimum wage. However, the cost of living has sky rocketed. Someone making less than 60 thousand a year in California is in poverty. The rest of the nation's poverty level is around half that or 30 thousand a year.

 

Why should the federal government offset the minimum wage because of California's socialist policies?

 

A couple of months ago my wife and I went to our desired Conservative state which we are planning to move to by next April. We noticed the booming housing developments and businesses paying over 15 dollars a hour to start. And the cost of living which we gauged by the housing median was substantially less. For example, in my area the average house sells for 900 thousand dollars. Compare that with a housing median around 150 thousand dollars with a booming economy in a Conservative state.

 

At this time California is trying to pass a bill that will allow the state government to regulate housing costs. Mind you the high housing costs are the result of high taxes, regulation etc., or increased government intervention. The state wants to control personal property and the price owners may rent the housing. In other words the state creates this mess then offers itself to bail others out of the mess by voting them more control and regulation. It'll be interesting to see what happens as a result of this bill. Why would anyone purchase property in the state of California, pay taxes on it, and not be able to profit from it? Perhaps the government wants to offer state residence and decide how much space or living room an individual or family should be allotted?

 

Obama wrote in his book "dreams of my father" that the government has the right to tax a citizen 100% of income as long as the government offers equal benefits. Let's all work full time and let the government decide how much fruit from our labor that a person should have!

 

People are making over 15 dollars a hour here. And not many houses on my street contain only one family. To afford housing here more than one family must occupy a house. To raise the wages only puts more money in the government's pocket. They won't address the real issue because they refuse to remove themselves from the equation.

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I think I can cite examples from the past as well where no government intervention led to widespread poverty. I mentioned in a previous post about a week or so ago about the steel and coal mills from the 1800's. It took government intervention to forbid slavery which was a substantial part of the economy of the southern states. So there are extremes on both ends.

 I don't think it is a matter of total government intervention or zero government intervention. That should not be our only options.

 

 It is true that the cost of living is different based on which state one lives in. I know it is really expensive in New York, Alaska and Hawaii especially when compared with Kentucky, Arkansas and many parts of South Carolina.

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6 hours ago, Faber said:

I think I can cite examples from the past as well where no government intervention led to widespread poverty. I mentioned in a previous post about a week or so ago about the steel and coal mills from the 1800's. So there are extremes on both ends.

 I don't think it is a matter of total government intervention or zero government intervention. That should not be our only options.

 

 It is true that the cost of living is different based on which state one lives in. I know it is really expensive in New York, Alaska and Hawaii especially when compared with Kentucky, Arkansas and many parts of South Carolina.

Right, I am a Conservative by compromise, but classical Libertarian leaning.

 

The larger the government the higher the taxes. That's just common sense. The more we compromise and ask any 3rd party to mediate for us on our behalf the more power, control, or freedom we give to that party.

 

I think a true Libertarian is as extreme as one may become. As a Conservative I compromise on personal freedom but limit the intervention government may have. However, the larger the government and social benefits (public education, well fare etc) the higher the taxes.

 

What "we" don't want to do we farm out to another party. This really, to me, is the nucleus of the American way. For example, most parents would rather go to work and then pay someone to watch their children and educate them. That of course comes with a cost and loss of freedom. We agree to allow a 3rd party to do this or that and of course we grant them that authority.

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For me, the lesser the government the higher the possibility of corporate control. Teddy Roosevelt was known as a "trust buster" in his reigning in of corporate power. Some/many Christians know of William Jennings Bryan as a Christian and politician in the late 1800's and early 1900's. He was deeply involved with the Scopes trial in Tennessee concerning the teaching of evolution. Yet even he, as a defender of states rights, when asked about the US Supreme Court's decision to allow states to continue to use child labor stated something along the lines that it wasn't a victory for state's rights (less government control) but was indeed "a victory for capitalism whose greed has coined the blood of little children into larger dividends."

 

The massive wealth of the US is far too unevenly distributed. Many are scraping by with nickels and dimes and yet corporate profits and pay offs are through the roof (the sky).

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The problem is there are too many minimum wage jobs. Much of this is due to Obama era policies and regulations and we are starting to see that go away.

 

Minimum wage jobs were never supposed to be for supporting a family or the cost of living. They are jobs like fast food etc, which are really meant for younger workers. Some people, don't want to move to higher jobs because of the education required or the amount of commitment required.

 

So the problem is not the minimum wage. It is the American work ethic combined with education costs and government regulatory interference in the open markets.

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Never imagined how difficult it would be to search for a definition explaining classical Libertarianism because of the modern definition ascribed to Liberalism which fills the internet (bears no resemblance to classical Libertarianism). Pretty much what I agree with as possibly the spirit of our founding fathers:

 

Classical Libertarianism holds that people lose their dignity as government gains control of their body and their life. The Abdication of natural rights to government prevents people from living in their own way and working and producing at their own pace. The result is a decrease in self-reliance and independence, which results in a decrease in personal dignity, which in turn depresses society and necessitates more government interference.

 

Libertarians believe that government should be limited to the defense of its citizens. Actions such as murder, rape, Robbery, theft, Embezzlement, Fraud, Arson, Kidnapping, Battery, Trespass, and Pollution violate the rights of others, so government control of these actions is legitimate. Libertarians acknowledge human imperfection and the resulting need for some government deterrence and punishment of violence, Nuisance, and harassment. However, government control of human activity should be limited to these functions.

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4 hours ago, davidtaylorjr said:

So the problem is not the minimum wage. It is the American work ethic combined with education costs and government regulatory interference in the open markets.

 Educations costs: I have seen the salaries of some of those in leadership positions so it is not surprising the cost of education is what it is.

 

"Made in China" - cheap labor for the same product. The same holds true for several Southeast Asian nations. Why pay 1 American worker for the same price as 100 workers offshore?

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14 hours ago, Faber said:

For me, the lesser the government the higher the possibility of corporate control. Teddy Roosevelt was known as a "trust buster" in his reigning in of corporate power. Some/many Christians know of William Jennings Bryan as a Christian and politician in the late 1800's and early 1900's. He was deeply involved with the Scopes trial in Tennessee concerning the teaching of evolution. Yet even he, as a defender of states rights, when asked about the US Supreme Court's decision to allow states to continue to use child labor stated something along the lines that it wasn't a victory for state's rights (less government control) but was indeed "a victory for capitalism whose greed has coined the blood of little children into larger dividends."

 

The massive wealth of the US is far too unevenly distributed. Many are scraping by with nickels and dimes and yet corporate profits and pay offs are through the roof (the sky).

Now-a-days we have government backed corporations. From defense companies to Planned Parenthood.

 

I wouldn't mind a 3rd party, a classical Libertarian party to roll back and shrink the government. 20+ Trillion dollars in debt. The government is surely to start stamping birth certificates with bank seals. They're banking on your children and children's children and how much they'll pay in taxes.

 

5 hours ago, Faber said:

Educations costs: I have seen the salaries of some of those in leadership positions so it is not surprising the cost of education is what it is.

Be better as a (non-profit corp) business rather than a social welfare program run by the government. For example, I'd support abolishing the public school system and all the unionized salaries and benefits.

 

 

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4 hours ago, William said:

I wouldn't mind a 3rd party, a classical Libertarian party to roll back and shrink the government. 20+ Trillion dollars in debt. The government is surely to start stamping birth certificates with bank seals. They're banking on your children and children's children and how much they'll pay in taxes.

Ha... Corey Booker wants to give all newborns pre-funded savings accounts...

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6 hours ago, William said:

Now-a-days we have government backed corporations.

 

Collusion on a massive scale.

1 hour ago, davidtaylorjr said:

Ha... Corey Booker wants to give all newborns pre-funded savings accounts...

  It would be nice if he was for taking (away) the blood money used by Planned Parenthood for something more beneficial to the children in our country.

 

 

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On 10/26/2018 at 4:32 AM, davidtaylorjr said:

Ha... Corey Booker wants to give all newborns pre-funded savings accounts...

Mind as well stamp new born birth certificates with a bank seal. The government is spending and banking on how much the avg citizen will eventually pay back in their life time. Our children and their children and their children's children are being sold into a modern type of slavery.

 

We need 20 trillion so we'll take a loan out and promise the banks that x amount of citizens born will pay back this amount of money.

 

Meanwhile, Dems keep promising more out of the United States Treasury as generous gifts for the vote. Our children are educated in Liberal academic institutions and they want this! Give them what they want!

 

“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.  A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.  From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”

 

In the back of mind I hear old Joe Biden preaching to a black audience, warning them about the GOP, he said, "They want to put you back in chains". The DNC the very party for slavery and Jim Crow laws is blaming the opposition for the very thing they are doing. They'll slap a person across the face and yell assault!

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Our son owns an Heating and Air conditioning company. He employs about 8 men and two secretaries. He starts out men wit NO experience at $10. to $11. per hour. However he is told by young men just out of high school  they expect at least $15.00 an hour. Recently Kansas City, MO raised the min. wage to $15. an hour. Our son had his equipment supplier raise his cost for air handler's and different gases and all that goes into his business by 10%. He did not feel that he could pass on the full 10% to his customers, so his profit has gone down. He gave his trained Tec's a wage increase to $50,000, a year and installers to $17.00 an hour. Even with these wages for he finds getting well qualified people almost impossible. 

 

When untrained young people are thinking they deserve $15.00 an hour to start flipping burgers they have unrealistic expectations. If our state and government people think rasing the min. wage to $15.00 an hour is helping they are wrong. If our government raised the min. wage to even $10, this is going to fuel the fires of inflation. There are some jobs that will never deserve $15.00 an hour, say a dish washer or working at very low skilled labor jobs.

 

Some "snow flakes" would rather live with mommy and daddy clear up to their thirties. The bible has an answer for all this. Unless a man works he should not eat.

 

Any thoughts?

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On 10/25/2018 at 3:47 PM, davidtaylorjr said:

The problem is there are too many minimum wage jobs. Much of this is due to Obama era policies and regulations and we are starting to see that go away.

 

Minimum wage jobs were never supposed to be for supporting a family or the cost of living. They are jobs like fast food etc, which are really meant for younger workers. Some people, don't want to move to higher jobs because of the education required or the amount of commitment required.

 

So the problem is not the minimum wage. It is the American work ethic combined with education costs and government regulatory interference in the open markets.

 

When I first started working, I did not expect to make a wage that I could rent a house and raise a family on. Once I got some work history, I moved to a union job that allowed all that. I was lucky to find one early in my career.

 

Some employers take advantage of their workers by keeping them at such low wages, they can't live properly. If you expect older workers with more experience, you need to pay them a livable wage. It should be determined by how much time you expect your employee to devote to his job and the skill level involved. In a good economy, low entry level jobs should be hard to fill.    :RpS_thumbup:

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deade The jobs where I was paid fairly, and the most were union jobs, Firefighters union, Teamsters union, and the Carpenters union, once when I was delivering RC Cola the office shorted my pay and refused to pay what I was owed. I called the Teamsters union office. They called the RC cola office that I worked out of, and told them not a single truck was moving in or out of that business until I was paid. In less that one hour I had my pay. Unions used to be powerful for the worker.

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7 hours ago, Just Mike said:

deade The jobs where I was paid fairly, and the most were union jobs, Firefighters union, Teamsters union, and the Carpenters union, once when I was delivering RC Cola the office shorted my pay and refused to pay what I was owed. I called the Teamsters union office. They called the RC cola office that I worked out of, and told them not a single truck was moving in or out of that business until I was paid. In less that one hour I had my pay. Unions used to be powerful for the worker.

I agree unions were very good for a long time. But like anything worldly, corruption does creep in. I have seen unions drive companies out of business. There was some corruption in our very old Bakers and Confectioners Union.   :RpS_sad:

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2 hours ago, deade said:

I agree unions were very good for a long time. But like anything worldly, corruption does creep in. I have seen unions drive companies out of business. There was some corruption in our very old Bakers and Confectioners Union.   :RpS_sad:

California supposedly has THE worst income to debt ratio out of every state in America. And that's despite the talking point of the Dems which boast that California has a top 5 economy. California's economy is long term unsustainable.

 

How much do you suppose the labor unions have to do with that? Regarding wages and pensions etc.

 

Our local community just announced teacher housing on elementary school property (protecting the source of the Dem education). Teachers can't afford to live where the average 2 bedroom apartment  2800.00 dollars. Pretty soon they'll be proposing limited government living quarters allotting square feet per person.

 

The answer by Dems is simple. Give them more tax money and more power to bail us out of the mess which the Dems have created. What a vicious circle ~ unsustainable.

 

The right of the government is to tax 100% of income as long as it offers equivalent benefits. In other words according to Obama which wrote that in "dreams of my father" the government has the right to all our fruits of our labors and to distribute it as they see fit.

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On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 11:01 AM, William said:

Nope, I don't.

 

For example, in California they are pushing a 15 dollar a hour minimum wage. However, the cost of living has sky rocketed. Someone making less than 60 thousand a year in California is in poverty. The rest of the nation's poverty level is around half that or 30 thousand a year.

 

Why should the federal government offset the minimum wage because of California's socialist policies?

 

A couple of months ago my wife and I went to our desired Conservative state which we are planning to move to by next April. We noticed the booming housing developments and businesses paying over 15 dollars a hour to start. And the cost of living which we gauged by the housing median was substantially less. For example, in my area the average house sells for 900 thousand dollars. Compare that with a housing median around 150 thousand dollars with a booming economy in a Conservative state.

 

At this time California is trying to pass a bill that will allow the state government to regulate housing costs. Mind you the high housing costs are the result of high taxes, regulation etc., or increased government intervention. The state wants to control personal property and the price owners may rent the housing. In other words the state creates this mess then offers itself to bail others out of the mess by voting them more control and regulation. It'll be interesting to see what happens as a result of this bill. Why would anyone purchase property in the state of California, pay taxes on it, and not be able to profit from it? Perhaps the government wants to offer state residence and decide how much space or living room an individual or family should be allotted?

 

Obama wrote in his book "dreams of my father" that the government has the right to tax a citizen 100% of income as long as the government offers equal benefits. Let's all work full time and let the government decide how much fruit from our labor that a person should have!

 

People are making over 15 dollars a hour here. And not many houses on my street contain only one family. To afford housing here more than one family must occupy a house. To raise the wages only puts more money in the government's pocket. They won't address the real issue because they refuse to remove themselves from the equation.

I saw a program a few months back about the real estate market in California and the asking prices for homes that we here traditionally call "match boxes " . I'm not being critical of anyone who lives in these houses they were showing ,but when I learned of the asking prices I couldn't believe it. An eight hundred square foot ,three bedroom , one bath and kitchen on a lot measuring fifty by one hundred was in the five hundred thousand dollar range. Oh,,,no place to park the family wheels . Sorry,,,if you want  to park on the street that's not included in the cost of the home . But seriously , the prices on some of those homes was startling . How can anyone even afford to live in a home where the monthly note must be in the thousands ? Or even buy a home for that fact. Here in my state  there is no clearly defined minimum wage . It is reasonably presumed that if a person was hired for an entry level job their beginning hourly wage would be around $ 12.00 to $ 14.00 per hour ; ( Wal-Mart, Home Depot ,Lowes and Target ) With enough time on the job that figure will grow. Making home ownership possible . Other properties that were about double the one mentioned above were in the $ 900,000 range. Properties with a price tag that high in my state would get you in a limited entrance  subdivision next to the folks that own car dealerships, supermarkets, and department stores . I'm serious !

 

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On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 6:32 AM, davidtaylorjr said:

Ha... Corey Booker wants to give all newborns pre-funded savings accounts...

He also promised to limit prison populations of certain individuals because there are too many  "undeserving young men "  exposed to this kind of cruelty. Way to go Booker, so when you win the Whitehouse you'll just release the armed thugs that killed innocent people for little more than pocket change and redefine murder , car jackings , armed robbery , child porn , aggravated burglary and aggravated rape to little more than municipal violations to be handled in traffic court .

I'm serious . If the left is allowed to continue on their trail of obnoxious  bigotry you can expect this kind of activity that puts criminals back on the streets . Beginning with lowered bonds and signature releases. ( Signature releases are when you know a politician looking for votes to get re-elected and a thug here or a thug there are perfect for the occasion  ) .

That's what is happening in New Orleans at this present time . The judges are so liberal that they are releasing armed thugs arrested for murder on bonds as low as $1,000.00. Oh,,,that's because their crimes were " less serious " than originally believed . And these nieave judges think they will show up in court on their own recognizance .

Well guess what ? It doesn't happen .

Edited by Matthew A.Duvall
spelling

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On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 6:39 PM, William said:

California supposedly has THE worst income to debt ratio out of every state in America. And that's despite the talking point of the Dems which boast that California has a top 5 economy. California's economy is long term unsustainable.

 

How much do you suppose the labor unions have to do with that? Regarding wages and pensions etc.

 

Our local community just announced teacher housing on elementary school property (protecting the source of the Dem education). Teachers can't afford to live where the average 2 bedroom apartment  2800.00 dollars. Pretty soon they'll be proposing limited government living quarters allotting square feet per person.

 

The answer by Dems is simple. Give them more tax money and more power to bail us out of the mess which the Dems have created. What a vicious circle ~ unsustainable.

 

The right of the government is to tax 100% of income as long as it offers equivalent benefits. In other words according to Obama which wrote that in "dreams of my father" the government has the right to all our fruits of our labors and to distribute it as they see fit.

Sad,,,really sad that we have come this far. We can't let the majority rule in 2020. We have to make every effort possible to get this president re-elected !

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9 hours ago, Matthew Duvall said:

The judges are so liberal that they are releasing armed thugs arrested for murder on bonds as low as $1,000.00. Oh,,,that's because their crimes were " less serious " than originally believed . And these nieave judges think they will show up in court on their own recognizance .

Well guess what ? It doesn't happen .

 

 Sounds like "catch and release."

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In 1973 we bought a four bedroom two full bath, with Living room, dinning room and  a nice patio, it had 1,900 square feet and we paid $19,800. for it back then. We saw it on Zollow about five years ago for $425.000. The house was a little better that a match box house, but not by much. A crew of men built a tract of homes in just a few months. There was nothing fancy and it had low quality carpet and floor tile, roof trusses were on 24" centers. We lived there for 16 months and when my mother in law got bone cancer we moved to be close to her. Glad we did not stay in CA.

 

Missouri is a wonderful sate. 100% service connected disabled vets get about 90% of their property tax back and vehicle license plates and renewal fees are waved. I am so blessed to live here.

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On 10/25/2018 at 8:49 AM, Faber said:

  I was surprised to see that the Federal Minimum Wage is still at $7.25 an hour. That seems rather meager.

Probably not the best choice for a lifetime career. 

I remember working for 1.35 an hour.

Got some training and moved on.

 

Some that have these low paying jobs think they should be making enough money to buy a house. It has never worked that way.

 

They have machines now that can and will work for 15 dollars an hour (with cost coming down daily). Careful people your replacement is ready to take your job and work without taking vacation or sick days nor lunch breaks. Plus, less complaints. 

 

M-Bob 

Edited by Mountainmanbob

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