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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Just Mike

Ordinations for sale on MSN

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Today on MSN Christian Harvest Church will Ordain you as a Christian Minister with five packages for Marriages, Baptisms, Credential of Ministry, and a Clergy Parking  Placard, and a Christian Harvest Church Text Book, all this for only $78.00 satisfaction guaranteed, if you are not satisfied simply return your material packages within ten days and your money will be refunded.

 

This makes real genuine Ordination seem so simple!  In truth most of us who have gone through the lengthy ordeal of writing a personal Theology paper, and meeting with a Ordination Counsel, and then questioning, along with getting a M. Div degree, then a Ordination Service in the Church with those who have questioned you and agree you are ready to be Ordained. Ordination is not something you purchase on line, it is a calling by God and the local Body where you minister sees the hand of God on your service to God and His church. 

 

In all my years I have never been asked to see my Ordination papers, nor do I carry them or have a Clergy Parking Placard, but I assure you to become genuinely Ordained it costs much more than $78.00, it costs you whole life for Jesus Christ.

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19 hours ago, Just Mike said:

Today on MSN Christian Harvest Church will Ordain you as a Christian Minister with five packages for Marriages, Baptisms, Credential of Ministry, and a Clergy Parking  Placard, and a Christian Harvest Church Text Book, all this for only $78.00 satisfaction guaranteed, if you are not satisfied simply return your material packages within ten days and your money will be refunded.

 

This makes real genuine Ordination seem so simple!  In truth most of us who have gone through the lengthy ordeal of writing a personal Theology paper, and meeting with a Ordination Counsel, and then questioning, along with getting a M. Div degree, then a Ordination Service in the Church with those who have questioned you and agree you are ready to be Ordained. Ordination is not something you purchase on line, it is a calling by God and the local Body where you minister sees the hand of God on your service to God and His church. 

 

In all my years I have never been asked to see my Ordination papers, nor do I carry them or have a Clergy Parking Placard, but I assure you to become genuinely Ordained it costs much more than $78.00, it costs you whole life for Jesus Christ.

Yup, how can they dare buy from MSN and not some Liberal Arts institution? Not all certificates are equal in their frames on the wall. Great financial sacrifice was made in Liberal Arts institutions bearing a seal more credible than MSN!

 

Likewise, the Jedi council senses the force in someone and they ordain and take the young Padawan into the Jedi order to carry on the tradition and restore equilibrium and balance in the universe.

 

Some say the apostles were nothing more than carpenters, fishermen, tax collectors, and tent makers!

 

God bless,

William

 

P.S. I was tempted to move your thread, Mike, to the Satire sub-forum!

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17 minutes ago, Just Mike said:

William there must be enough "want to bee's" to more than pay for the advertising on MSN to be a "certified minister"

There are academic institutions which are college accredited that allows people to obtain their degrees online.

 

Have you considered how little of a difference there is between them and the advertisement on MSN?

 

I'm not suggesting that all schools and the seal they bear are equal. Rivalry between schools such as Hallel vs Shammai, Pauline Augustinian schools etc., have all bared various credentials and ways of thinking for over 2000+ years. 

 

All I am suggesting is that giving a secular college accreditation the authority to determine which are certifiable pastors, ministers, teachers etc is questionable.

 

God bless,

William

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For any denomination that is worth being a part of, as a Christian, the ordination process is just as you describe.  So, say someone spends their nominal fee to get their "ordination" online, they are going to get a rude awakening when they try to become ordained as a minister in any truly conservative denomination.  Those ordination boards will scrutinize these people and spit them out at the very first sign of something fake.  However, it will be up to the governing body to decide if the individual up for ordination actually may have the calling, but did not go through the rigors of the full formal education as many other people have done to become an ordained minister, but still would consider the individual.  

 

Point being, it is not necessary for an individual to go through that much education and still be called by God, but they will find a really hard time for a truly conservative body to ordain them as a minister.

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15 minutes ago, Knotical said:

For any denomination that is worth being a part of, as a Christian, the ordination process is just as you describe.  So, say someone spends their nominal fee to get their "ordination" online, they are going to get a rude awakening when they try to become ordained as a minister in any truly conservative denomination.  Those ordination boards will scrutinize these people and spit them out at the very first sign of something fake.  However, it will be up to the governing body to decide if the individual up for ordination actually may have the calling, but did not go through the rigors of the full formal education as many other people have done to become an ordained minister, but still would consider the individual.  

 

Point being, it is not necessary for an individual to go through that much education and still be called by God, but they will find a really hard time for a truly conservative body to ordain them as a minister.

Being educated in a M Div degree does not mean a man is truly called by God. Today we read quite often of Pastors having affairs, they like David did not have their Godly gourd up. When Pastors sink to immorality many almost seekers fall away with them.

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8 minutes ago, Just Mike said:

Being educated in a M Div degree does not mean a man is truly called by God. Today we read quite often of Pastors having affairs, they like David did not have their Godly gourd up. When Pastors sink to immorality many almost seekers fall away with them.

Absolutely, which is why elders of the church are to keep a close watch on whomever they ordain as their head pastor.

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3 hours ago, Knotical said:

Absolutely, which is why elders of the church are to keep a close watch on whomever they ordain as their head pastor.

This is why I think the Presbyterian government is best. Local churches are subject to regional presbys and they to a national presby. I think that's about as much as anyone can hold a denomination accountable. Likewise, things can go bad when the wrong people fill the top positions nationally. We see it in the American government. I think God uses ordinary means and wicked or unbiblical rulers are brought into power by the moral climate of those under them. 

 

The PCUSA and America will ultimately receive the wicked rulers they deserve, and so will our children and their children. 

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2 hours ago, William said:

This is why I think the Presbyterian government is best. Local churches are subject to regional presbys and they to a national presby. I think that's about as much as anyone can hold a denomination accountable. Likewise, things can go bad when the wrong people fill the top positions nationally. We see it in the American government. I think God uses ordinary means and wicked or unbiblical rulers are brought into power by the moral climate of those under them. 

 

The PCUSA and America will ultimately receive the wicked rulers they deserve, and so will our children and their children. 

The Methodist have a good higher group of Ministers they are accountable, and move the pastor about every so many years. But the Methodist have become so liberal I am unsure what parts of the Bible they believe in any more, very sad in deed.

5 hours ago, Knotical said:

Absolutely, which is why elders of the church are to keep a close watch on whomever they ordain as their head pastor.

I firmly believe to be scriptural there should be Elder's and Deacons, not Deacons and Trustees as the SBC has done for so long they think its Biblical. So very sad.

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12 hours ago, Just Mike said:

The Methodist have a good higher group of Ministers they are accountable, and move the pastor about every so many years. But the Methodist have become so liberal I am unsure what parts of the Bible they believe in any more, very sad in deed.

2

What really are the pros and cons of this kind of approach?  I grew up in a CRC church in Wisconsin and only knew two pastors of that church.  The one who was there prior to by birth until he retired in the late 80's, and the one who was called to take his place.  The one we called had said shortly after arriving that a pastor really should only stay with a congregation for about 5 years.  Well, he ended up staying until after I moved away in 97, so he was probably there for about 10 years.

 

Honestly, if a pastor is a good shepherd, and lives well according to the requirements of an elder I see no reason he shouldn't stay until he decided to retire.  The church my family attended before moving to Texas earlier this year had been around since the mid 90's and had the same pastor that started it when we started attending in 2011.  The only reason he is not pastor of that church anymore is that he retired.  We did call another pastor upon his retirement, but he only stayed for about 5 years.  I think it would have been longer, but his family was homesick (along with other reasons) so he resigned.  Currently, they are in the process of calling another pastor.

 

I view a pastor as the patriarch of the congregation to which he has been called, and should he suddenly feel the need to be called somewhere else it has the feeling the father is leaving the family.

 

That may be a rather naive view, but that has been my impression, and many times a church can go through the after-effects of a pastor leaving a church like going through a divorce.

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Very well said Knotical. One thing to remember a pastor puts on his pants one leg at a time. He too must have the prayers of the people and most importantly sincere kindness and love extended to his family. Often the wife is sort of set aside and neglected. One area is, if the pastor is paid low, little ways of helping can be bring food to his family or buying clothes for the kids, or buying a set of tires would be a most welcome thing. I wore out several sets of tires in my first church, I drove over 100,00 miles in three and one half years, I was also finishing seminary at the time. I was Bi Vocational and times were really difficult. I speak out of real life experience as a pastor.

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On 10/13/2018 at 6:34 PM, Just Mike said:

I firmly believe to be scriptural there should be Elder's and Deacons, not Deacons and Trustees as the SBC has done for so long they think its Biblical. So very sad.

I was once a member of a Baptist church that recognized he truth of what you are saying and changed from having deacons and trustees to having elders and deacons.  It wasn't SBC but was a member of the General Association of Regular Baptists.

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41 minutes ago, theophilus said:

I was once a member of a Baptist church that recognized he truth of what you are saying and changed from having deacons and trustees to having elders and deacons.  It wasn't SBC but was a member of the General Association of Regular Baptists.

The GARB so dislike the American and southern Baptist. My Mom & Dad were members of a GARB church and the pastor was respectful to me, but he disapproved of the Seminary I went to and my being a pastor of an American Baptist church.

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