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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Frosty

Can someone explain John 6:37-38?

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Joh 6:35  And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 
Joh 6:36  But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 
Joh 6:37  All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 
Joh 6:38  For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 
Joh 6:39  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 
Joh 6:40  And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 
 

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4 hours ago, Frosty said:

Can someone explain John 6:37-38?

 

This seems to suggest a limited atonement, is that true?

Not true.

 

Some biblical history is needed to explain John.6:37-38. The Jews lost their kingdom of earth, ie Judah/Israel, at around 800BC through sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking. First to the empire of Babylon, Assyria, Greece and then Rome. The Jews suffered under foreign rule, repented and through the Latter prophets, God promised them a coming Messiah/Christ to "save" or deliver them, eg ISAIAH.9:6.

 

When the Jews were still suffering under Roman rule during the 1st century AD, Jesus of Nazareth appeared on the scene claiming to be the Messiah/Christ who would "save" them and gift them the kingdom of heaven - MATTHEW.4:17. But the Jews wanted one who would defeat the Romans militarily and give them back their kingdom of earth.(JOHN.6:15) Hence, the Jews rejected Jesus as the Christ/Messiah and proceeded to "murder" Him by making false accusations against Him being a rebel leader or the "King of the Jews".

....... After His crucifixion/death, most of the apostles fled from Jerusalem and lost faith in Jesus Christ, except for John and the 2 Mary's. The resurrected Christ had to recall the lost apostles back into faith in Him, eg doubting Thomas at JOHN.20:28. Hence, ... JOHN.6:37-38 = 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Edited by discipler77

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2 hours ago, discipler77 said:

Not true.

 

Some biblical history is needed to explain John.6:37-38. The Jews lost their kingdom of earth, ie Judah/Israel, at around 800BC through sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking. First to the empire of Babylon, Assyria, Greece and then Rome. The Jews suffered under foreign rule, repented and through the Latter prophets, God promised them a coming Messiah/Christ to "save" or deliver them, eg ISAIAH.9:6.

 

When the Jews were still suffering under Roman rule during the 1st century AD, Jesus of Nazareth appeared on the scene claiming to be the Messiah/Christ who would "save" them and gift them the kingdom of heaven - MATTHEW.4:17. But the Jews wanted one who would defeat the Romans militarily and give them back their kingdom of earth.(JOHN.6:15) Hence, the Jews rejected Jesus as the Christ/Messiah and proceeded to "murder" Him by making false accusations against Him being a rebel leader or the "King of the Jews".

....... After His crucifixion/death, most of the apostles fled from Jerusalem and lost faith in Jesus Christ, except for John and the 2 Mary's. The resurrected Christ had to recall the lost apostles back into faith in Him, eg doubting Thomas at JOHN.20:28. Hence, ... JOHN.6:37-38 = 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Thanks for your comment.  I could not tell by your remarks, but are you saying that he died for all mankind?

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5 hours ago, Becky said:

Joh 6:35  And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 
Joh 6:36  But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 
Joh 6:37  All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 
Joh 6:38  For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 
Joh 6:39  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 
Joh 6:40  And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 
 

Thanks for your post.  Does your post imply that he died for all mankind or just those that his Father gave him?

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6 minutes ago, Hitch said:

If atonement is not limited then what really  requires explanation  is the waste of much of the most precious commodity.

Can you explain, and maybe give a scripture reference?

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7 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Yup. What would be the point ?   Grace as it is heavenly, overcomes sin  as  God is greater than  man.

You have a strange way of discussing scripture, by not posting scripture to discuss.

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6 minutes ago, Frosty said:

You have a strange way of discussing scripture, by not posting scripture to discuss.

If you really wanted  one or two passage answers  you wouldnt ask questions that require far more.

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11 hours ago, Frosty said:

Thanks for your comment.  I could not tell by your remarks, but are you saying that he died for all mankind?

No. Jesus only died for those who accepted or believed in Him as the promised Christ/Messiah/Saviour, first the Jews(eg the apostles) and then the Gentiles(ACTS.15). ...

 

JOHN.4: = 25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”

26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

.

 

MATTHEW.16: = 13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”

 

14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

 

15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

 

16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

 

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

 

20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

Edited by discipler77
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On 9/30/2018 at 6:32 AM, Frosty said:

This seems to suggest a limited atonement, is that true?

Compare or contrast with John 6:44:

 

No one can come to me (T) unless the Father (U) who sent me draws him (I). And I will raise him (L for Limited Atonement) up on the last day (P).

 

I think Limited atonement is suggested at least a couple of times in John Chapter 6.

 

God bless,

William
 

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6 hours ago, discipler77 said:

No. Jesus only died for those who accepted or believed in Him as the promised Christ/Messiah/Saviour, first the Jews(eg the apostles) and then the Gentiles(ACTS.15). ...

 

JOHN.4: = 25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”

26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

.

 

MATTHEW.16: = 13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”

 

14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

 

15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

 

16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

 

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

 

20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

In comment to your answer "No,  Jesus only died for those who accepted or believed in him".  Only the regenerated children of God will believe in him and accept him.  The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14 cannot discern or believe in a spiritual God until he has been regenerated as explained in Eph 2, especially verse 5, when he was "yet dead in sins" unable to discern spiritual things.

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5 hours ago, William said:

Contrast or harmonize with John 6:44:

 

No one can come to me (T) unless the Father (U) who sent me draws him (I). And I will raise him (L for Limited Atonement) up on the last day (P).

 

I think Limited atonement is suggested at least a couple of times in John Chapter 6.

 

God bless,

William
 

Do you think that Eph 2:5 indicates that the Father's drawing is an irresistible drawing?

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1 hour ago, Frosty said:

In comment to your answer "No,  Jesus only died for those who accepted or believed in him".  Only the regenerated children of God will believe in him and accept him.  The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14 cannot discern or believe in a spiritual God until he has been regenerated as explained in Eph 2, especially verse 5, when he was "yet dead in sins" unable to discern spiritual things.

Yes, God/Jesus chose the 12 apostles out of millions of Jews. The 12 apostles, including Paul, did not choose to follow Jesus Christ.

 

When most of the apostles fell out of faith and into disillusion/despair after the death and crucifixion of Jesus Christ, the resurrected Christ brought them back into faith by reappearing in front of them. This miracle lasted for 40 days until His Ascension back to heaven. The Holy Spirit of God(= Jesus - 2COR.3:17) is still around here on earth.

 

Similarly, God/Jesus chose some to be Gentile Christians out of billions of mostly lawless Gentiles through the ages.

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2 hours ago, Frosty said:

Do you think that Eph 2:5 indicates that the Father's drawing is an irresistible drawing?

Yes, and, the entire process of being saved by grace through faith is ALL a gift from God. In Ephesians 2:8 the "this or that" in "this is not your own doing" or "that not of yourselves" refers back to the entire process of salvation and not only regeneration which Paul has explained in both chapters 1 and 2 of Ephesians.

 

God bless,

William
 

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On ‎9‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 8:32 AM, Frosty said:

This seems to suggest a limited atonement, is that true?

You're absolutely correct . These two verses unequivocally  support limited atonement.  All one has to do is read it and they will see that Jesus is NOT giving credence to anyone's salvation based on their own " choice " .       M

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On ‎10‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 8:18 PM, Matthew Duvall said:

You're absolutely correct . These two verses unequivocally  support limited atonement.  All one has to do is read it and they will see that Jesus is NOT giving credence to anyone's salvation based on their own " choice " .       M

There is so much opposition out there, and it is refreshing when someone understands the scriptures in like manner.

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