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Hitch

Question for Dispensationalist (and other futurists)

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Hitch


 

110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

The above is one of the most referenced OT quotes in the apostolic letters.  My questions for you:

1. Which  'dispensation' does it belong in?

2. What is the effect in history?

 

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William
Staff

Turn up the volume then! The "theme" is reoccurring and I suspect until a time of completion:

 

God bless,

William

 

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Hitch

One could fall into the belief that the  DF would rather this passage didint exist.

 

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davidtaylorjr
On 9/30/2018 at 5:48 PM, Hitch said:

One could fall into the belief that the  DF would rather this passage didint exist.

No, its just I don't really see the point of this thread. It is pretty straight forward.

 

This is talking about a king greater than David in the Davidic line. We know that is Christ. He is sitting at the right hand of the Father now (Period of Grace) and will be there until his enemies become his footstool at the end.

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theophilus
19 hours ago, davidtaylorjr said:

This is talking about a king greater than David in the Davidic line. We know that is Christ. He is sitting at the right hand of the Father now (Period of Grace) and will be there until his enemies become his footstool at the end.

But between the present period of Grace and the end he will rule on earth for a thousand years in fulfillment of the promises made to David.

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Becky
Moderator
2 minutes ago, theophilus said:

But between the present period of Grace and the end he will rule on earth for a thousand years in fulfillment of the promises made to David.

Will you ,please, quote the promises you are referring to ?

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theophilus
1 minute ago, Becky said:

Will you ,please, quote the promises you are referring to ?

God promised David that one of his descendants would rule.  The gospel of Matthew begins with Jesus being recognized by the Wise Men as king of the Jews.  The Jews rejected his claim and declared that Caesar was their king.  But God had promised that Jesus would rule the Jews as their king and he will keep that promise.

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Becky
Moderator

Do you have the Scripture quotes? 

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Becky
Moderator
On 10/17/2018 at 9:29 AM, theophilus said:

God promised David that one of his descendants would rule.  The gospel of Matthew begins with Jesus being recognized by the Wise Men as king of the Jews.  The Jews rejected his claim and declared that Caesar was their king.  But God had promised that Jesus would rule the Jews as their king and he will keep that promise.

I believe He did keep that promise . Again i ask for the Scripture quotes for the promise. 

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davidtaylorjr
On 10/27/2018 at 12:27 PM, Becky said:

I believe He did keep that promise . Again i ask for the Scripture quotes for the promise. 

2 Samuel 7:12–17

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Becky
Moderator

Kings 9

 And it came to pass, when Solomon had finished the building of the house of the Lord, and the king's house, and all Solomon's desire which he was pleased to do,

2 That the Lord appeared to Solomon the second time, as he had appeared unto him at Gibeon.

3 And the Lord said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.

4 And if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness, to do according to all that I have commanded thee, and wilt keep my statutes and my judgments:

Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.

6 But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them:

7 Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people:

8 And at this house, which is high, every one that passeth by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss; and they shall say, Why hath the Lord done thus unto this land, and to this house?

9 And they shall answer, Because they forsook the Lord their God, who brought forth their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have taken hold upon other gods, and have worshipped them, and served them:therefore hath the Lord brought upon them all this evil.

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Becky
Moderator

Is King Jesus ruling today ? 

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davy
On 8/25/2019 at 1:25 PM, Becky said:

Is King Jesus ruling today ? 

Over His Church, yes. But not yet over all nations. He doesn't do that until His 2nd coming as written. That is when also His elect will reign with Him over the nations, with the "rod of iron". It's not going to be like it is today, with rogue nations following whatever they want.

 

But first, prior to His 2nd coming in our near future, He has shown us that a one-world beast kingdom with a one-world beast king must appear on earth first, prior to His return (Rev.13; Rev.17; 2 Thess.2:3-4). That is what is building up today over all nations, the U.N. being used as the main tool to do it.

 

The Jew's temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt, and old covenant worship will be re-established among the orthodox Jews. This the coming pseudo-Christ will allow until he ends the sacrifices and instead places the abomination idol that makes that temple spiritually desolate, causing the whole world to worship him as God instead.

 

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Becky
Moderator
2 minutes ago, davy said:

 

 

The Jew's temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt, and old covenant worship will be re-established among the orthodox Jews. This the coming pseudo-Christ will allow until he ends the sacrifices and instead places the abomination idol that makes that temple spiritually desolate, causing the whole world to worship him as God instead.

 

This is what Christ's Sacrifice was about and finished 2000 or so years ago.  Despinsationalism of any perspective teaches  of an invalid Christ. It teaches His lack of victory. His lack of Kingship. It teaches a man is in control of mans salvation. It teaches that many will be saved via the Hebrew blood in their veins . Which again devalues the Blood of the Godly Sacrifice of the Son of God .  

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davy
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Becky said:

This is what Christ's Sacrifice was about and finished 2000 or so years ago.  Despinsationalism of any perspective teaches  of an invalid Christ. It teaches His lack of victory. His lack of Kingship. It teaches a man is in control of mans salvation. It teaches that many will be saved via the Hebrew blood in their veins . Which again devalues the Blood of the Godly Sacrifice of the Son of God .  

You cannot apply Christ's Olivet discourse to Dispensationalism. They believe it was only meant for Jews, and not for Christ's Church.

 

Our Lord Jesus taught of a false one coming to Jerusalem first, prior to His return, and warned that false one would fool even His very elect, IF... it were possible. That same kind of warning was given by Apostle Paul for the end in 2 Thess.2, and again by Apostle John in Rev.13:11 forward. So it's kind of hard for the serious Bible student to miss.

 

Edited by davy
mis spell

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theophilus
20 hours ago, Becky said:

This is what Christ's Sacrifice was about and finished 2000 or so years ago.  Despinsationalism of any perspective teaches  of an invalid Christ. It teaches His lack of victory. His lack of Kingship. It teaches a man is in control of mans salvation. It teaches that many will be saved via the Hebrew blood in their veins . Which again devalues the Blood of the Godly Sacrifice of the Son of God . 

 

20 hours ago, davy said:

You cannot apply Christ's Olivet discourse to Dispensationalism. They believe it was only meant for Jews, and not for Christ's Church.

Both of you seem to be misinformed about dispensationalism.  We do not believe any of these things.  If you want to find out what dispenstionalism really teaches I suggest you visit this site:

 

WWW.RAPTUREREADY.COM

Rapture Ready - The most complete resource about the Rapture, End Times News, Events, Prophecy, & Doctrine of the Pre-tribulation Rapture of the...

 

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Becky
Moderator

@theophilus. The first 40+ years of my life was spent in dispensationalism . I grew up in Assemblies of God Sunday School. Dad was a AofG pastor. I know not every dispensatiohnalist believes exactly the same as the next .. The same as every one else . I have read you saying , This is not a quote, There is a group of people who have a different salvation then others ,, That is totally dispensational teaching. Totally demeans the Cross. . 

 

I read you as a brother in Christ with a different view of Scripture then i have grown to believe . I think our core beliefs to be the same . 

 

As for Rapture Ready, the forum,  they kick me out because they did not like the Scripture i posted . Think i lasted about 12 hours. 

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davy
23 hours ago, Becky said:

This is what Christ's Sacrifice was about and finished 2000 or so years ago.  Despinsationalism of any perspective teaches  of an invalid Christ. It teaches His lack of victory. His lack of Kingship. It teaches a man is in control of mans salvation. It teaches that many will be saved via the Hebrew blood in their veins . Which again devalues the Blood of the Godly Sacrifice of the Son of God .  

This isn't Dispensationalism. It is Bible prophecy. I do not adhere to a pre-trib rapture either for that is not written in God's Word. Just because I declare prophecy from God's Word to be yet future does not make me a Futurist either. So when you can dispense with the seminary jargon, then maybe we can actually talk about what is written in God's Word instead.

 

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William
Staff
3 hours ago, theophilus said:

Both of you seem to be misinformed about dispensationalism.

Are there really any two dispensationalist that agree?

 

thor im hilarious GIF

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davy
3 hours ago, theophilus said:

 

Both of you seem to be misinformed about dispensationalism.  We do not believe any of these things.  If you want to find out what dispenstionalism really teaches I suggest you visit this site:

 

WWW.RAPTUREREADY.COM

Rapture Ready - The most complete resource about the Rapture, End Times News, Events, Prophecy, & Doctrine of the Pre-tribulation Rapture of the...

 

 

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm well familiar with the pre-trib rapture theory doctrine of men, and its history, and Darby's Dispensationalism, and its later versions. None of that determines what timing a Bible prophecy is for, or is actually about. What is written in God's Word is what determines the times and the seasons.

 

 

 

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Becky
Moderator
38 minutes ago, davy said:

This isn't Dispensationalism. It is Bible prophecy. I do not adhere to a pre-trib rapture either for that is not written in God's Word. Just because I declare prophecy from God's Word to be yet future does not make me a Futurist either. So when you can dispense with the seminary jargon, then maybe we can actually talk about what is written in God's Word instead.

 

Some dispensationalist preach pre-trib.. some mid-trib and some post. Some a secret rapture some not.  This is the first time anyone has ever suggest i use seminary jargon. 🙂  my simple mind finds that very amusing . I also believe there are  prophetic happenings yet to come. Am i mess reading you to have one heck of a chip on your shoulder?  Do you know anyone who can talk about God's Word without personal preconceived notions? 

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davy
1 minute ago, Becky said:

Some dispensationalist preach pre-trib.. some mid-trib and some post. Some a secret rapture some not.  This is the first time anyone has ever suggest i use seminary jargon. 🙂  my simple mind finds that very amusing . I also believe there are  prophetic happenings yet to come. Am i mess reading you to have one heck of a chip on your shoulder?  Do you know anyone who can talk about God's Word without personal preconceived notions? 

 

Well, when you use terms like "Despinsationalism" (mispelled)...

 

No chips, just tired of seminary jargon slinging. I can see how anyone who stays here on this forum long enough could easily pick it up. I prefer to stick to The Bible.

 

Concerning preconceived notions, that's a different idea, but still kind of vague. According to Apostle Paul those in Christ are supposed to be saying the same thing (1 Corinthians 1). Thus our notions should follow The Bible first and foremost, otherwise we should put our speculations on a shelf.

 

I was raised in a mainstream Christian Church that didn't teach much Bible prophecy. They believe on Christ's second coming in the future, but that's about all the future prophecy they taught besides burning in hell forever and ever. No clear views of future eternity was taught, kind of left up to the imagination, when God's Word instead does give some major hints to that future time.

 

 

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William
Staff
43 minutes ago, Becky said:

Some dispensationalist preach pre-trib.. some mid-trib and some post. Some a secret rapture some not.  This is the first time anyone has ever suggest i use seminary jargon. 🙂  my simple mind finds that very amusing . I also believe there are  prophetic happenings yet to come. Am i mess reading you to have one heck of a chip on your shoulder?  Do you know anyone who can talk about God's Word without personal preconceived notions? 

It's more simple to refer to a theological school of thought by name then to have to explain anyone's theology in detail covering several hundred posts. What some find "labeling" saves us the time to come to the same conclusion ~ dispensationalism. It's like going into a grocery store and walking down the canned food section and seeing no labels. Everyone wants to be an original can. Gotta love it, ya know I posted a meme yesterday which stated two theological schools of thought Arminianism vs Calvinism. Only Arminians say I only go by the bible. Then they go on to explain Arminianism as if we never heard their very own personal theology before by any other name. Everyone wants to have a theological school of thought named after them. 

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Becky
Moderator
1 hour ago, davy said:

 

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm well familiar with the pre-trib rapture theory doctrine of men, and its history, and Darby's Dispensationalism, and its later versions. None of that determines what timing a Bible prophecy is for, or is actually about. What is written in God's Word is what determines the times and the seasons.

 

 

 

Then why did you use the word Dispensationalism ?  Maybe because it is a descriptive label? Like saying it is a wintry  day instead of saying it is windy cold raining gusty . Some words are helpful in understanding one another . 

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