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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Innerfire89

Salvation without The Trinity? How?

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For any non Trinitarians that might come across this I have a couple questions that I was curious to see how you would anwser.

 

If Jesus is not God, how can his sacrifice attome for the sins of all the elect? That would be one sinless life of a mere mortal, which can only purchase the redemption of one other life.

 

If Jesus is not God, why did Jesus not have to spend eternity in Hell to pay for our sins? 

 

Hope to hear some good answers soon.

 

Stay blessed.

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The following link is from an anti-Trinitarian site:

https://www.truthortradition.com/articles/how-can-a-man-atone-for-the-sins-of-mankind

 

 

 As I see it whenever a person sins against another person each sin is only against God in the sense that He is the absolute standard of holiness that has been transgressed (Psalm 51:4). David indeed sinned against Uriah by murdering him, Bathsheba by committing adultery with her, and David sinned against himself as well (cf. 1 Corinthians 6:18).

 God knows that I have personally sinned against people in my life that I will probably never see again.

 -> I can ask God to forgive me for engaging in such awful things because He is the absolute standard of holiness. I wouldn't ask forgiveness from John for sinning against Sam because John is a created being, but I could ask God to forgive me for sinning against Sam.[*1]

 

 Since Paul affirms that when sinning against one another we are in fact sinning against Christ (1 Corinthians 8:12) is another example for me that Christ is the absolute standard of holiness = God.[*2] 

->  I can ask Christ to forgive me for engaging in such awful things because He is the absolute standard of holiness. I wouldn't ask forgiveness from John for sinning against Sam because John is a created being, but I could ask Christ to forgive me for sinning against Sam.

 

 

 

[*1] If it is possible I ought to ask both God and Sam for forgiveness.

 

[*2] https://www.christforums.org/topic/8986-the-absolute-holiness-of-the-lord-jesus-in-equality-with-the-father/

 

 

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8 hours ago, Faber said:

The following link is from an anti-Trinitarian site:

https://www.truthortradition.com/articles/how-can-a-man-atone-for-the-sins-of-mankind

 

 

 As I see it whenever a person sins against another person each sin is only against God in the sense that He is the absolute standard of holiness that has been transgressed (Psalm 51:4). David indeed sinned against Uriah by murdering him, Bathsheba by committing adultery with her, and David sinned against himself as well (cf. 1 Corinthians 6:18).

 God knows that I have personally sinned against people in my life that I will probably never see again.

 -> I can ask God to forgive me for engaging in such awful things because He is the absolute standard of holiness. I wouldn't ask forgiveness from John for sinning against Sam because John is a created being, but I could ask God to forgive me for sinning against Sam.[*1]

 

 Since Paul affirms that when sinning against one another we are in fact sinning against Christ (1 Corinthians 8:12) is another example for me that Christ is the absolute standard of holiness = God.[*2] 

->  I can ask Christ to forgive me for engaging in such awful things because He is the absolute standard of holiness. I wouldn't ask forgiveness from John for sinning against Sam because John is a created being, but I could ask Christ to forgive me for sinning against Sam.

 

 

 

[*1] If it is possible I ought to ask both God and Sam for forgiveness.

 

[*2] https://www.christforums.org/topic/8986-the-absolute-holiness-of-the-lord-jesus-in-equality-with-the-father/

 

 

Lol, they jumped all around the question of how Christ death provides attonment for all the elect.  

 

 

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On 9/10/2018 at 1:28 AM, Innerfire89 said:

If Jesus is not God, how can his sacrifice attome for the sins of all the elect?

 Hi Innerfire89,

 

 I found this from Wayne Grudem:

 

e. The importance of the Doctrine of the Trinity. Why was the church so concerned about the doctrine of the Trinity? Is it really essential to hold to the full deity of the Son and the Holy Spirit? Yes it is, for this teaching has implications for the very heart of the Christian faith. First, the atonement is at stake. If Jesus is merely a created being, and not fully God, then it is hard to see how he, a creature, could bear the full wrath of God against all of our sins. Could any creature, no matter how great, really save us? Second, justification by faith alone is threatened if we deny the full deity of the Son. (This is seen today in the teaching of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who do not believe in justification by faith alone.) If Jesus is not fully God, we would rightly doubt whether we can really trust him to save us completely. Could we really depend on any creature fully for our salvation? Third, if Jesus is not infinite God, should we pray to him or worship him? Who but an infinite, omniscient God could hear and respond to all the prayers of all God’s people? And who but God himself is worthy of worship? Indeed, if Jesus is merely a creature, no matter how great, it would be idolatry to worship him—yet the New Testament commands us to do so (Phil. 2:9-11; Rev. 5:12-14).

https://www.biblicaltraining.org/library/trinity-wayne-grudem

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, brakelite said:

Why is it so essential to accept the "trinity' in order to believe in the full divinity of Christ?

The doctrines of the Trinity aren't so essential in our initial understanding in comparison to the essential truths rejected once we understand.

 

When we are new converts the Trinity is really a difficult mystery which is revealed by God in Scripture and in our personal relationship with God.

 

We aren't so much penalized for our initial ignorance as we are penalized for our rejections.

 

In other words, a lot of people come to God and then deepen in understanding of the interpersonal relationship in God.

 

God bless,

William

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