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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Innerfire89

Might be saved?

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Often we come across verse that says "might be"or "may", which would seem to mean that what's in contex is a possibility.

For example: Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did perdestinate to be confirmed to the image of his son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 

 

But "might" and "may" don't nessearly mean that something is a maybe. But instead mean will or to do so. 

 

Here is a verse were "might" means to do so. Matthew 12:17 That is might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet.

Here we see that something takes place and then the purpose is given.

 Another example of this: 2Corinthians 5:15 And that He died for all, that they should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them, and rose again.

 

Stay strong in Christ and be blessed.

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John 6:40 "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

 

In the Greek, "may have" is in the subjunctive mood which denotes "the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances."  BlueletterBible.com.    Therefore the meaning of the verse is that one 'may have' everlasting life depending on the circumstance of one faithfully maintaining a present tense seeing and believing.   If one conditionally continues to see and believe Christ then he may have everlasting life.  If one never sees or believes or quits seeing and believing then one may not have everlasting life.

 

Note how the NIV changed this verse to avoid the force of the subjunctive mood "For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”  The NIV replaced the subjunctive mood with an indicative mood to avoid the fact the the verse makes having everlasting life CONDITIONAL and not UNCONDITIONAL as OSAS falsely proclaims. 

 

 

 

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Strong's for may have in John 6:40

 

G2192
ἔχω
echō
ekh'-o
A primary verb (including an alternate form σχέω scheō skheh'-o used in certain tenses only); to hold (used in very various applications, literally or figuratively, direct or remote; such as possession, ability, contiguity, relation or condition): - be (able, X hold, possessed with), accompany, + begin to amend, can (+ -not), X conceive, count, diseased, do, + eat, + enjoy, + fear, following, have, hold, keep, + lack, + go to law, lie, + must needs, + of necessity, + need, next, + recover, + reign, + rest, return, X sick, take for, + tremble, + uncircumcised, use.
 

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3 hours ago, Becky said:

Strong's for may have in John 6:40

 

G2192
ἔχω
echō
ekh'-o
A primary verb (including an alternate form σχέω scheō skheh'-o used in certain tenses only); to hold (used in very various applications, literally or figuratively, direct or remote; such as possession, ability, contiguity, relation or condition): - be (able, X hold, possessed with), accompany, + begin to amend, can (+ -not), X conceive, count, diseased, do, + eat, + enjoy, + fear, following, have, hold, keep, + lack, + go to law, lie, + must needs, + of necessity, + need, next, + recover, + reign, + rest, return, X sick, take for, + tremble, + uncircumcised, use.
 

Reminds me of the differences we were taught in asking the teacher if we "can" go to the bathroom while in elementary school. I remember Mrs. Ball correcting us and explaining the differences between "may" or "can" in relation to permissiveness and/or inability.

 

In this way I understand how either "may" or "shall" can be acceptable.

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3 hours ago, seabass said:

Note how the NIV changed this verse to avoid the force of the subjunctive mood "For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”  The NIV replaced the subjunctive mood with an indicative mood to avoid the fact the the verse makes having everlasting life CONDITIONAL and not UNCONDITIONAL as OSAS falsely proclaims. 

Can you continue and elaborate a little more? Based on the verses context what are the conditions? You bring something interesting to light seabass.

 

John 6:40 NIV For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

 

If one was granted only "permission" then is the condition "ultimately" dependent on Jesus raising them up at the last day? And does the beginning of the verse indicate that Jesus submits to the will (of one will) of the Father? Is the middle of the verse excluded from both the will of the Father and Son? For example, what about those that take the middle of the verse, "everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life" and make the beginning (the Father's will) and end (Jesus raising) dependent on the actions of everyone who "looks to the Son and believes" as though both the Father and Son Elected and Raised upon this as a condition?   

 

God bless,

William

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4 hours ago, seabass said:

John 6:40 "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

 

In the Greek, "may have" is in the subjunctive mood which denotes "the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances."  BlueletterBible.com.    Therefore the meaning of the verse is that one 'may have' everlasting life depending on the circumstance of one faithfully maintaining a present tense seeing and believing.   If one conditionally continues to see and believe Christ then he may have everlasting life.  If one never sees or believes or quits seeing and believing then one may not have everlasting life.

 

Note how the NIV changed this verse to avoid the force of the subjunctive mood "For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”  The NIV replaced the subjunctive mood with an indicative mood to avoid the fact the the verse makes having everlasting life CONDITIONAL and not UNCONDITIONAL as OSAS falsely proclaims. 

 

 

 

So would it also be correct to say that while one sees The Son and belives on Him that they might not have eternal life? If you belive, then you might have eternal life.

 

I don't use terms like OSAS, there's no O in TULIP.  Perseverance of the Saints states that though the indwelling work of The Holy Spirit the Saints, which is all believers, persevere in faith, there is no turing away from the faith.

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11 minutes ago, Innerfire89 said:

So would it also be correct to say that while one sees The Son and belives on Him that they might not have eternal life? If you belive, then you might have eternal life.

Interesting questions, correct me if wrong, are you bringing to question the "seeing" and "believing" of various creatures such as Satan and demons? For example, Satan sees God and believes God exists. How does this differ from what the verse in question is meant to convey? In the end of Chapter 6 Jesus refers to Judas as a devil. Did Judas "see" and "believe" Jesus? Some would say, Judas saw Jesus and believed He was the Messiah but that his perception of what the Messiah should be was quite different than the plan God had in mind for the Messiah.

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4 minutes ago, William said:

Interesting questions, correct me if wrong, are you bringing to question the "seeing" and "believing" of various creatures such as Satan and demons? Does Satan see God and believe God? How does this differ from what the verse in question is meant to convey? In the end of Chapter 6 Jesus refers to Judas as a devil. Did Judas "see" and "believe" Jesus? Some would say, Judas saw Jesus and believed He was the Messiah but that his perception of what the Messiah should be was quite different than the Messianic plan God had in mind.

Looking at the verse in isolation we can conclude all sorts of different meanings, just from interpiting may to mean maybe, we could say that believing on Christ makes eternal life a possibility and not a deffinte.

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1 hour ago, Innerfire89 said:

Looking at the verse in isolation we can conclude all sorts of different meanings, just from interpiting may to mean maybe, we could say that believing on Christ makes eternal life a possibility and not a deffinte.

What does "everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him" in John 6:40 mean?

 

I think the question I asked was extrapolated from your comment and it can be answered in the verse. Of course, the immediate context helps greatly.

 

I notice that in the immediate context that the will of the Father is mentioned at least a couple of times. And in verse 41 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”

 

Why were the Jews grumbling about that? What was so offensive about it? Bread is mentioned quite a bit in the surrounding context. What would partaking of the "bread" signify?

 

God bless,

William

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A point of related interest. Lets take the focus off of man (red herring) for a moment and consider what the Jews were grumbling about and were stating in verse 41-42, "So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

 

Genesis 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. (He was priest of God Most High.) Hebrews 5:5-10; 6:20 and chapter 7: Melchizedek, of whom the epistle writer of Hebrews 7:3 declares to be “without father or mother”. Melchizedek surely had a biological father and mother. However, the author of Hebrews goal of stating that Melchizedek's lineage is unknown serves to further the priesthood of Melchizedek stands outside of the line of Levi and Aaron. Melchizedek has no genealogy and even if you wanted a genealogy, he has no father or mother through whom to trace his lineage.

 

Also note the expression of Abram to the king of Sodom when "Abram" in Melchizedek's presence says, "I would not take a thread or a sandal strap or anything that is yours, lest you should say, ‘I have made Abram rich.’" Compare with John 1:26-27 John answered them, “I baptize with water, but among you stands one you do not know, even he who comes after me, the strap of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie.” Notice the actions and what is said by Abram in Genesis 14, "lest you should say, "I have made Abram rich". In Genesis 14:17-24; Hebrews 7:4-7 Melchizedek received a tenth from Abram though his descent was not of Levi which were to receive tithes and offerings, and Abram was blessed by Melchizedek.

Why would Abram pay tithes to Melchizedek? And what does this say about Melchizedek when Abram "the claimed father of these Jews" made tithes to and received blessings from Melchizedek?

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To look on and belive on Christ for eternal life.

 

The Jews expected physical bread, they didn't believe that Jesus was the bread that gave eternal life.

 

From what I understand is that murmmering here is not complaing but whispering or gossiping. They only tbought of Jesus as human, in thier thinking, Jesus was just the son of Mary and Joseph, so how could He say He came down from Heaven? 

John 6:42

 Or were you referring to  verse 52?

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30 minutes ago, Innerfire89 said:

To look on and belive on Christ for eternal life.

 

I think these Jews knew exactly who they were standing in the presence of from the Scriptures. They just didn't believe in Him. In the post above yours I made a comment while you were posting.

 

28 minutes ago, Innerfire89 said:

The Jews expected physical bread, they didn't believe that Jesus was the bread that gave eternal life.

 

Ya know, brother, something I observe, theology is God centered and religion is man centered. Just like in verse 41-42 when the religious attempt at theology they point to man (theologians, priests, etc) rather than God. Just some brotherly advice, don't follow the red herring. Titus 3:9 "But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless."
 

God bless,

William

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36 minutes ago, William said:

 

I think these Jews knew exactly who they were standing in the presence of from the Scriptures. They just didn't believe in Him. In the post above yours I made a comment while you were posting.

 

 

Ya know, brother, something I observe, theology is God centered and religion is man centered. Just like in verse 41-42 when the religious attempt at theology they point to man (theologians, priests, etc) rather than God. Just some brotherly advice, don't follow the red herring. Titus 3:9 "But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless."
 

God bless,

William

I must have said or alluded to something and not realized it. But yes the Jews were disbelieving or denying because no one can come to The  Son unless The father draws them.

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14 minutes ago, Innerfire89 said:

I must have said or alluded to something and not realized it.

I'm sure any confusion is due to my lack of clarification. When you introduced the context of the verse by suggesting that a verse can mean anything when isolated I began using the immediate context and I introduced a related interest from a recent ongoing study.

 

God bless,

William

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19 hours ago, Innerfire89 said:

So would it also be correct to say that while one sees The Son and belives on Him that they might not have eternal life? If you belive, then you might have eternal life.

 

I don't use terms like OSAS, there's no O in TULIP.  Perseverance of the Saints states that though the indwelling work of The Holy Spirit the Saints, which is all believers, persevere in faith, there is no turing away from the faith.

Those that CONDITIONALLY, faithfully maintain a present tense seeing and believing may have everlasting life.  The other side of the coin, those that have never seen nor believed or who have quit seeing and believing may not have everlasting life.  This denotes the subjunctive mood that is a mood of possibility or potential.  

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21 hours ago, William said:

Can you continue and elaborate a little more? Based on the verses context what are the conditions? You bring something interesting to light seabass.

 

John 6:40 NIV For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

 

If one was granted only "permission" then is the condition "ultimately" dependent on Jesus raising them up at the last day? And does the beginning of the verse indicate that Jesus submits to the will (of one will) of the Father? Is the middle of the verse excluded from both the will of the Father and Son? For example, what about those that take the middle of the verse, "everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life" and make the beginning (the Father's will) and end (Jesus raising) dependent on the actions of everyone who "looks to the Son and believes" as though both the Father and Son Elected and Raised upon this as a condition?   

 

God bless,

William

The conditions given in Jn 6:40 so that one may have everlasting life is a present tense seeing and believing Christ.   Everlasting life therefore is not possible at all unless one has and maintains (present tense) these conditions.  The ones and only ones that Christ will raise up are the ones that faithfully continued to see and believe Christ.  Salvation therefore is 100% conditional and not UNConditional as OSAS/ES/POTS claims.

Edited by seabass

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On 10/3/2018 at 9:23 AM, seabass said:

The conditions given in Jn 6:40 so that one may have everlasting life is a present tense seeing and believing Christ.   Everlasting life therefore is not possible at all unless one has and maintains (present tense) these conditions.  The ones and only ones that Christ will raise up are the ones that faithfully continued to see and believe Christ.  Salvation therefore is 100% conditional and not UNConditional as OSAS/ES/POTS claims.

Do you recognize your man-centered doctrine?

 

Lets go with the conditions imposed on the Christian and address our ability or inability to meet those conditions. From who does ability come from? And when does the initial ability occur, and are there any conditions set upon person(s) before ability is enabled?

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On 10/2/2018 at 11:14 AM, seabass said:

John 6:40 "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

 

In the Greek, "may have" is in the subjunctive mood which denotes "the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances."  BlueletterBible.com.    Therefore the meaning of the verse is that one 'may have' everlasting life depending on the circumstance of one faithfully maintaining a present tense seeing and believing.   If one conditionally continues to see and believe Christ then he may have everlasting life.  If one never sees or believes or quits seeing and believing then one may not have everlasting life.

 

Note how the NIV changed this verse to avoid the force of the subjunctive mood "For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”  The NIV replaced the subjunctive mood with an indicative mood to avoid the fact the the verse makes having everlasting life CONDITIONAL and not UNCONDITIONAL as OSAS falsely proclaims. 

 

 

 

You don't know what you are talking about.  You don't know Greek.  This is a "hina" clause (i.e.  ἵνα plus the subjunctive).  The NIV has not changed anything.  The NIV is correct.  You simply don't understand the relationship of the subjunctive in conjunction with ἵνα.  Clearly it is you who do not understand anything about Greek syntax.

 

 

Stop acting as if you know anything about the language.  You don't.

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Another verse uses 'must' not 'can'

 

Acts 4:11-12 New King James Version (NKJV)

11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

 

Must to me here means an imperative. We must be saved, there is no doubt that we will be saved. God is not willing that any of His wheat, sheep, be lost. So we must be saved. Christ must save them, it is God's will. And so then none of them will be lost.

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