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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.

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I'd like to hear how others would respond to the following:

For context, the other day I shared the following quote in social media, “If Ezekiel’s temple is a physical, earthly temple in a future millennial age, then Christ as the temple with the living water flowing from His riven side is really just a type pointing to that antitype. One of the tragic consequences of dispensationalism" (Nathan White).

 

I grew up among Plymouth Brethren dispensationalists so naturally now they are ganging up on me. One brother in particular has been having some extended discussion with me about this. Here is some questions he asked that I'd love to hear how others would handle. Thanks in advance!

 

My friend wrote, "But… even today there is a God-ordained, visible, audible functioning priesthood – post Calvary (1 Pet 2:4-10). And there are divinely-instituted physical objects and rituals that both symbolize Christ and point backwards to Calvary after the fact (eg. 1 Cor 11:26). This functioning priesthood today does not detract from Christ’s High Priesthood at all. Nor is it a return to the shadows, because it is of a different character than Aaron’s (Likewise the millennial priesthood). Similarly the Lord’s Supper is not returning to the shadows of the OT manna. Christ himself ordained it. The OT manna pointed forward to Christ as the true Bread. The NT loaf today points backwards to Christ as the true Bread. How about this modified quote: “If the bread and wine are physical, tangible objects in the present church age, then Christ as the true Bread with true blood flowing from his riven side is really just a type pointing to that antitype. One of the tragic consequences of ‘Whitism’?” (Obviously referring to Nathan White). That, I think, is the fallacy in White’s argument. There are tangible, physical symbols that point back to Calvary. They do not rob Christ of his place as Center and Anti-type. If that is true of the church age, why could that not also be true of the future kingdom? Have believers in the church age misunderstood to return to types and shadows?"

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Where does the Bible say anything about Christ being a temple?  Ezekiel's temple is a literal temple that will be built during the Millennium and has no effect on what we believe about Christ.  We need to study prophecy to find out what will happen before we try to figure out what it signifies.

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My best reply to this are some sermon notes my dad wrote about 35 years ago.  Not the smoothest read as they are 'notes' 

 

Getting acquainted with Mount Zion

 

According to 1 Pet. 1:10-20. the prophets have a message for the Church today - so looking at Isa. 28:16, which Scripture is quoted in 1 pet.2:6 , and we know from the context the writer is speaking of the Church, I must ask the Holy Spirit to reveal His living Word to me!

                                                    

1Pet.2:6    This verse speaks of a building, Who is building it and where He is building it! And we know that the Lord Jesus is the Builder, we know that His Church is  His building, and we know that He is the Stone _ corner stone  "Chief Corner Stone"

                      Psa. 118:22    Matt. 21:33-46      Eph, 2:20

 

Upon what is He building His Church?  Of course we go to Matt 16:18 and we hear Jesus saying ," Upon this Rock I will build My Church, " The confession of Peter, That Jesus is the Christ , the Son of the Living God ! What a Rock that is! The Stone The sure foundation ! Matt. 7 :24,25.

 

Where is He building His Church?  He said " Behold I lay in Zion a Chief Corner Stone ! We know He isn't speaking of Mt. Zion in the land of Israel , for His Church is world-wide . You and I have been called "living stones" in His building and we're not in the natural land of Israel !  Therefore we know He isn't putting His Church in any particular piece of real estate nor geographical area - for His Church is a spiritual body. Now the prophets Isaiah and Micah tell us that in the last days (Church age ) the house of the Lord will be established on the mountain. Isa.2:2-3 and Micah 4:1,2. We believe that His house and His Church are one in the same.

 Heb. 3:6 tells us that we are His house. (He dwells within us).  Acts 15 :16,17 The Holy Spirit revealed to James at this meeting that Amos spoke of the same thing - the gentiles being saved and he called it David's Tabernacle . Amos 9:11, 12 and

Isa. 16:5 Speaks of a spiritual tabernacle , not natural in the New Testament . Reading in 2 Chron. 5:1,2 Solomon took the Ark off Mt Zion where David built his tabernacle . A type of the Church, the one He is building so that the rest of mankind can be saved. That's the Church made up of both Jews and Gentiles Eph.2:13-22 1Chron.16 :1 tells us of setting it up on Mt Zion. The mountain of the Lord! Then we read in the Psalms 132:13-16 - this lets us know this is the mountain the Lord has chosen as His habitation- along with Eph. 2:22

                               

                                                               So  There

Conclusion Heb. 12:22   Psa 2:6

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Joh 2:17  And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up. 
Joh 2:18  Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 
Joh 2:19  Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 
Joh 2:20  Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 
Joh 2:21  But he spake of the temple of his body. 
 

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On 8/31/2018 at 9:09 AM, theophilus said:

Where does the Bible say anything about Christ being a temple?  Ezekiel's temple is a literal temple that will be built during the Millennium and has no effect on what we believe about Christ.  We need to study prophecy to find out what will happen before we try to figure out what it signifies.

Why do you think 'sin offerings' will be necessary ? 
 

Ezekiel 43:25

Seven days shalt thou prepare every day a goat for a sin offering: they shall also prepare a young bullock, and a ram out of the flock, without blemish.

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10 hours ago, Hitch said:

Why do you think 'sin offerings' will be necessary ? 
 

Ezekiel 43:25

Seven days shalt thou prepare every day a goat for a sin offering: they shall also prepare a young bullock, and a ram out of the flock, without blemish.

The sin offerings in the original temple didn't actually take away sin.  They were a picture of what Christ would do when he died on the cross.  During the present age the Lord's Supper serves as a picture of what he had done for us.  We are told to observe this rite until he returns.  Apparently after this the animal sacrifices will be resumed but they will then serve as reminders of what he did in the past.

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28 minutes ago, theophilus said:

  Apparently after this the animal sacrifices will be resumed but they will then serve as reminders of what he did in the past.

 What is the Scripture backing you have for this idea? In your view will there be a Holy of Holies in this temple? Who will be the high priest of the temple? 

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7 minutes ago, Becky said:

 What is the Scripture backing you have for this idea? In your view will there be a Holy of Holies in this temple? Who will be the high priest of the temple? 

The temple is described in the last part of Ezekiel.  I think it will have a Holy of Holies but I am not sure because the descriptions of the temple are hard to understand and I haven't studied them thoroughly.  I don't know whether there will be a high priest.  It is clear that the temple will be built and that there will be animal sacrifices but I haven't studied the subject in detail.

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Who offers up the blood sacrifices if not a high priest?  What would make your idea of a Holy of Holies holy? 

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Just now, Becky said:

Who offers up the blood sacrifices if not a high priest?  What would make your idea of a Holy of Holies holy? 

In the old temple all of the priests, not just the high priest, offered sacrifices.  

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52 minutes ago, theophilus said:

The sin offerings in the original temple didn't actually take away sin.  They were a picture of what Christ would do when he died on the cross.  During the present age the Lord's Supper serves as a picture of what he had done for us.  We are told to observe this rite until he returns.  Apparently after this the animal sacrifices will be resumed but they will then serve as reminders of what he did in the past.

Lev_4:26  And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him
 

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WWW.GOTQUESTIONS.ORG

What was the biblical role of the high priest? Why was the high priest such an important position in the old covenant?

 

 

The high priest had to offer a sin offering not only for the sins of the whole congregation, but also for himself (Leviticus 4:3-21). When a high priest died, all those confined to the cities of refuge for accidently causing the death of another person were granted freedom (Numbers 35:28).

The most important duty of the high priest was to conduct the service on the Day of Atonement, the tenth day of the seventh month of every year. Only he was allowed to enter the Most Holy Place behind the veil to stand before God. Having made a sacrifice for himself and for the people, he then brought the blood into the Holy of Holies and sprinkled it on the mercy seat, God’s “throne” (Leviticus 16:14-15). He did this to make atonement for himself and the people for all their sins committed during the year just ended (Exodus 30:10). It is this particular service that is compared to the ministry of Jesus as our High Priest (Hebrews 9:1-28).
 

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  Theo says "The sin offerings in the original temple didn't actually take away sin.  They were a picture of what Christ would do when he died on the cross.  During the present age the Lord's Supper serves as a picture of what he had done for us.  We are told to observe this rite until he returns.  Apparently after this the animal sacrifices will be resumed but they will then serve as reminders of what he did in the past."

Problem  1;  I like that you admit this is nothing more than an assumption on your part. 

Problem 2;  Earlier you  also asserted that  this temple is  'literal'.  It is obvious then if the  building must be literal than the stated reasons for the sacrifices must also be literal . And  I have  already provided one of many references  from  Eze to  'sin  offerings' .

Problem   3;  While there are a number of times the  prophet mentions  'sin offerings'  there are  NO  passages in which he intones ,allows, or even speaks to the notion  of  'memorials', that whole idea is entirely imaginary.

Edited by Hitch

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