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josha

Alcohol and Christianity

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Matthew A.Duvall
On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 1:23 PM, josha said:

I used to drink underage and got sober for 4 years. I had relapsed  sept 2017 a few times and had a few beers, throughout the year and this year. I jus enjoy beer etc. everytime i have a beer though i feel guilty. I am of age, 23 years old I enjoy beer but I dont want to sin. I dont over do it, I have a couple beers and thats about it. I feel am i willfully sinning and would i go to hell i dont get drunk. I just have a few beers. Recently i have stopped drinking again til i figure all this out but yeah i would like some biblical advice from you because I truly trust you and your judgement some people say its good to not drink, others say as long as you dont get drunk your fine i dont want to disobey the lord or go against any conviction, i feel it is 100% smartest to not drink at all obviously anyone would say that, but is it wrong that i like beer and want to drink here and there. it also makes me think and maybe this is me being paranoid, but would God punish me if i drink even if i felt it was wrong. as far as give me a disease or something... some people say god can give judgement for disobedience. I just dont know if its also a mixture of my upbrining that i dont want to drinking alcohol because i was always told its wrong. I do feel maybe it is a conviction but i guess i just dont see why it should be an issue if i do it in a mature manner. My ultimate goal is to please God but IM really really stuck on this Please keep the relapse thing between us I feel a bit ashamed about it

 

hebrews 10:26 comes to mind and whatever is not of faith is sin verse.

 

numerous pastors have said its okay some say dont.., please honest advice

The only intoxicating drink we share in my household is an aging bottle of wine. We use it for The Lord's Supper. 1st.Cor.11:23-26 ; The first of the only two sacraments we are commanded to observe . The first of course is Baptism . There are churches that use grape juice with the traditional wafer . But that has been disputed by many theologians particularly  from the Reformation period. They all , including Calvin , observe the fact that the first group of apostles used actual wine .  Grape juice is never mentioned in the bible as a replacement for wine .   M

Edited by Matthew A.Duvall
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Hitch

When it comes to alcohol   one of the greatest sins  is the attempt by some to  alter the Scripture wrt the  Wedding  at  Cana. 

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Hitch
On 8/13/2018 at 2:32 PM, Just Mike said:

My dear friends here. I myself will judge no one on this subject of drinking alcohol beverages.

 

The Holy Spirit has laid upon my heart by Scripture, and my conscience that God would have me be an example of living in the Center of His Will, and that excludes drinking alcoholic beverages.

 

My desire is to live as close to My Holy Father, and being a Follower of His Son, Jesus Christ. 

 

I miss the mark on so many levels, and Satan tries to tempt to look and see that the fruit he offers is so beautiful, and would be so wonderful to taste. But like Adam and Eve we all are being tempted to take a bite of Satan's temping morsels, however He who lives in me is greater, and He is able to deliver me! Praise Jesus Christ He is able to Save me completely, I no longer am a slave to this world and its system of evil and wretchedness.I am free to Follow My King Jesus Christ.

Pretending to  be more holy than  Jesus seldom works out well, even what it comes through the back door.

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Just Mike
2 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Pretending to  be more holy than  Jesus seldom works out well, even what it comes through the back door.

The wine Jesus drank had far less alcohol than the wine of today, as it was diluted several times with water, however some did not dilute it and became drunk.

 

There is no "pretending to be more holy than Jesus" in my life. I remind you John did not drink wind, and he was surly a Holy man.

 

I am wondering why you thought is was best to make your statement which I take as snarky. Are you suggesting something in my post was something that hit a nerve with you. 

 

Personally you post makes me really wonder what's up with making this post of yours? 

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Hitch
2 minutes ago, Just Mike said:

The wine Jesus drank had far less alcohol than the wine of today, as it was diluted several times with water, however some did not dilute it and became drunk.

 

There is no "pretending to be more holy than Jesus" in my life. I remind you John did not drink wind, and he was surly a Holy man.

 

I am wondering why you thought is was best to make your statement which I take as snarky. Are you suggesting something in my post was something that hit a nerve with you. 

 

Personally you post makes me really wonder what's up with making this post of yours? 

Pretending to  be more holy than  Jesus seldom works out well, even what it comes through the back door.

Which part is beyond your comprehension ?

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Just Mike
17 minutes ago, Hitch said:

When it comes to alcohol   one of the greatest sins  is the attempt by some to  alter the Scripture wrt the  Wedding  at  Cana. 

I think you are directly referring to me. By no means was I attempting to alter Scripture. However today drinking has become a huge problem with both men and women and even in young children. Drinking is the drug of choice for more than you could believe. I am not saying not to drink, I am saying for a Christian we are called to be Holy as He is Holy. Now you are the one to decide what "Holy Christian living" is. For me alcohol would be a sin for several reasons, I answer to God,  I answer for no one else. Nor do I judge anyone who finds no sin in drinking alcohol. "IF YOU READ MY POST CORRECTLY AND ALL THE WAY TO THE END YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN HOW I FEEL".  

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discipler77
On 8/14/2018 at 2:23 AM, josha said:

I am of age, 23 years old I enjoy beer but I dont want to sin.

LEVITICUS.10:9 = Do not drink wine or intoxicating drink.

 

The danger is alcohol addiction or alcoholism = will result in a sad and short life on earth and risk losing salvation by losing faith while in suffering.

 

Drug and alcohol addiction develops after daily and excessive consumption for about 1 month because normal brain chemistry has been permanently altered or damaged by the drug/alcohol. 

 

Many ignorant, naive, gullible and impressionable youngsters are unaware of the above danger. ...

.

 

In normal people, their brains begin to secrete more stimulating neurotransmitters when the sun rises in the morning(= triggered by light sensors in the eyes), eg serotonin, dopamine, adrenaline, acetyl choline, etc which serve to elevate mood, improve mental concentration, alertness, increase energy level and muscle strength, etc, in order to prepare the body for a day of physical activity to earn their livelihood(= in ancient times, it was farming, hunting, fishing, etc) or to start the work-day.
.......Conversely, their brains begin to secrete more sedating neurotransmitters when the sun sets at night, eg GABA, endorphin(= painkiller and anti-depressant), melatonin(= sleepiness), etc; which serve to slow down(= inhibit) and calm the mind, relax the muscles, numb down any pain/depression, etc, in order to prepare the body for a night of restful sleep.

 

Psychotropic drugs are artificial analogues of these natural neuroT's produced by the brain, ie drugs that mimic neuroT's. Alcohol, heroin, morphine, oxycodone(= opiod painkiller), anxiolytics/sleeping pills, anesthetics, etc are sedatives. Caffeine, nicotine, methamphetamine/ice, cocaine, etc are stimulants.
.......Such artificial drugs cause tempting emotions of euphoria or total calmness and addiction/dependency when they are wrongly and excessively used. Eg Opiod painkillers, anti-anxiety pills and sleeping pills should be taken at the prescribed dosage and for not more than 3 weeks.

 

Also, children of alcoholics(and/or drug-addicts) will inherit alcoholism(= born with altered or damaged DNA/brains, eg crack-babies and meth-babies) and will grow up to experience the associated withdrawal symptoms = abnormal or defective personality. The withdrawal symptoms of alcoholism are symptoms of an over-active, uncalm and over-sensitive brain = nervousness/anxieties, sweaty palms, muscle tics, over-thinking, difficulty falling asleep/insomnia, paranoia, delusions, etc.(Delirium Tremens)

 

This is bc alcohol(and also prescription anxiolytics, depressant, sleeping pills, etc) works by slowing down brain activity, calming the person, relaxing muscles and numbing pain, resulting in sedation, anxiolysis, mental relaxation, elimination of social inhibition, slowed muscle coordination, painlessness, etc.
.......Over-consumption of alcohol result in drunkenness(= brain becomes too slow and too calm) and eventually a comatosed sleep(brain activity stopped) and waking up with hangover headaches.

 

Alcohol, being an analogue of the brain's own naturally-produced neuroT's(= GABA, endorphin, melatonin, etc). When consumed daily and long term(= more than 1 month), it will result in the brain stopping the production of its own neuroTs = the body's/brain's negative-feedback response system. This results in addiction or dependency, ie the altered/damaged-brain requires alcohol intake in order to function normally.

 

Bear in mind that the average adult body eliminates alcohol at a constant rate of about 30ml per hour. What does this mean.?
.......1 bottle of red wine(= 750ml at 13% concentration of alcohol) has about 90ml of alcohol. Drinking 1 bottle of wine at 1 go will leave the body with more than 60ml of alcohol in the bloodstream during the 1st hour. This enhances the calming or sedating effects of alcohol that has been consumed, compared to just drinking 2 glasses of red wine(= no kick). That is why many alcoholics go for binge-drinking, in order to get more "bang"(effects) out of it, ie drinking 2-3 large bottles of beer at one sitting.

 

P S - Women/girls get drunk faster than men/boys, for the same amount of alcohol consumption. Hence, inexperienced girls are more prone to be drunk-raped, eg new college girls or freshies.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by discipler77
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SovereignGrace

Paul told Timothy to no longer drink water but Welch’s grape juice for his stomach and other ailments.

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atpollard
1 hour ago, Hitch said:

When it comes to alcohol   one of the greatest sins  is the attempt by some to  alter the Scripture wrt the  Wedding  at  Cana. 

Perhaps you could offer a correct exegesis of the text so everyone can avoid “one of the greatest sins” by misunderstanding it.

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SovereignGrace

In my opinion, it’s no more wrong to smoke a cigar or cigarette than it is to drink. Regardless of what we do, someone will take umbrage to it.

 

How many pastors, whose belt has disappeared under their belly will shake a fat finger of someone drinking a beer, glass of wine, or shot of bourbon? 

Edited by SovereignGrace
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William
Staff
Just now, SovereignGrace said:

In my opinion, it’s no more wrong to smoke a cigar or cigarette than it is to drink. Regardless of what we do, someone will take umbrage to it.

Yup, when we say right or wrong we call into question the standard by which anything is deemed moral.

 

Anyone or thing can become the basis of a "religion" and legalism can be conveyed through various forms.

 

Take health nuts and how some point at others and criticize people's eating habits and weight etc. They can be quite legalistic.

 

Just look at secularism and how it bears all the characteristics of religion and how its legalism is conveyed through political correctness.

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SovereignGrace
1 minute ago, William said:

Yup, when we say right or wrong we call into question the standard by which anything is deemed moral.

 

Anyone or thing can become the basis of a "religion" and legalism can be conveyed through various forms.

 

Take health nuts and how some point at others and criticize people's eating habits and weight etc. They can be quite legalistic.

 

Just look at secularism and how it bears all the characteristics of religion and how its legalism is conveyed through political correctness.

Well, Jesus goes to a wedding in Cana. He gets news there’s no more wine. Now, He didn’t condemn them for drinking it. He tells them to fill six water pots and take some to head waiter. 

4 minutes ago, William said:

Yup, when we say right or wrong we call into question the standard by which anything is deemed moral.

 

Anyone or thing can become the basis of a "religion" and legalism can be conveyed through various forms.

 

Take health nuts and how some point at others and criticize people's eating habits and weight etc. They can be quite legalistic.

 

Just look at secularism and how it bears all the characteristics of religion and how its legalism is conveyed through political correctness.

It all boils down to this...moderation. Even in fitness. Ppl can take it too far and end up in bad shape. Too much water also dilutes your electrolytes and can cause mental issues.

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William
Staff
1 minute ago, SovereignGrace said:

Well, Jesus goes to a wedding in Cana. He gets news there’s no more wine. Now, He didn’t condemn them for drinking it. He tells them to fill six water pots and take some to head waiter. 

The "six" pots stand for incomplete man. They were filled with water (spirit) and upon Jesus' command the water blushed and was turned into wine (Gospel).

 

:classic_rolleyes:

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Just Mike
27 minutes ago, discipler77 said:

LEVITICUS.10:9 = Do not drink wine or intoxicating drink.

 

The danger is alcohol addiction or alcoholism = will result in a sad and short life on earth and risk losing salvation by losing faith while in suffering.

 

Drug and alcohol addiction develops after daily and excessive consumption for about 1 month because normal brain chemistry has been permanently altered or damaged by the drug/alcohol. ...

.

 

In normal people, their brains begin to secrete more stimulating neurotransmitters when the sun rises in the morning(= triggered by light sensors in the eyes), eg serotonin, dopamine, adrenaline, acetyl choline, etc which serve to elevate mood, improve mental concentration, alertness, increase energy level and muscle strength, etc, in order to prepare the body for a day of physical activity to earn their livelihood(= in ancient times, it was farming, hunting, fishing, etc) or to start the work-day.
.......Conversely, their brains begin to secrete more sedating neurotransmitters when the sun sets at night, eg GABA, endorphin(= painkiller and anti-depressant), melatonin(= sleepiness), etc; which serve to slow down(= inhibit) and calm the mind, relax the muscles, numb down any pain/depression, etc, in order to prepare the body for a night of restful sleep.

 

Psychotropic drugs are artificial analogues of these natural neuroT's produced by the brain, ie drugs that mimic neuroT's. Alcohol, heroin, morphine, oxycodone(= opiod painkiller), anxiolytics/sleeping pills, anesthetics, etc are sedatives. Caffeine, nicotine, methamphetamine/ice, cocaine, etc are stimulants.
.......Such artificial drugs cause tempting emotions of euphoria or total calmness and addiction/dependency when they are wrongly and excessively used. Eg Opiod painkillers, anti-anxiety pills and sleeping pills should be taken at the prescribed dosage and for not more than 3 weeks.

 

Also, children of alcoholics(and/or drug-addicts) will inherit alcoholism(= born with altered or damaged DNA/brains, eg crack-babies and meth-babies) and will grow up to experience the associated withdrawal symptoms = abnormal or defective personality. The withdrawal symptoms of alcoholism are symptoms of an over-active, uncalm and over-sensitive brain = nervousness/anxieties, sweaty palms, muscle tics, over-thinking, difficulty falling asleep/insomnia, paranoia, delusions, etc.(Delirium Tremens)

 

This is bc alcohol(and also prescription anxiolytics, depressant, sleeping pills, etc) works by slowing down brain activity, calming the person, relaxing muscles and numbing pain, resulting in sedation, anxiolysis, mental relaxation, elimination of social inhibition, slowed muscle coordination, painlessness, etc.
.......Over-consumption of alcohol result in drunkenness(= brain becomes too slow and too calm) and eventually a comatosed sleep(brain activity stopped) and waking up with hangover headaches.

 

Alcohol, being an analogue of the brain's own naturally-produced neuroT's(= GABA, endorphin, melatonin, etc). When consumed daily and long term(= more than 1 month), it will result in the brain stopping the production of its own neuroTs = the body's/brain's negative-feedback response system. This results in addiction or dependency, ie the altered/damaged-brain requires alcohol intake in order to function normally.

 

Bear in mind that the average adult body eliminates alcohol at a constant rate of about 30ml per hour. What does this mean.?
.......1 bottle of red wine(= 750ml at 13% concentration of alcohol) has about 90ml of alcohol. Drinking 1 bottle of wine at 1 go will leave the body with more than 60ml of alcohol in the bloodstream during the 1st hour. This enhances the calming or sedating effects of alcohol that has been consumed, compared to just drinking 2 glasses of red wine(= no kick). That is why many alcoholics go for binge-drinking, in order to get more "bang"(effects) out of it, ie drinking 2-3 large bottles of beer at one sitting.

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent post best I have read from a practical logical point.

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SovereignGrace
1 minute ago, William said:

The "six" pots stand for incomplete man. They were filled with water (spirit) and upon Jesus' command the water blushed and was turned into wine (Gospel).

 

:classic_rolleyes:

 

Huh? 🤔 🤨

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William
Staff
Just now, SovereignGrace said:

 

Huh? 🤔 🤨

Just having some fun with allegory.

 

God bless,

William

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SovereignGrace
Just now, William said:

Just having some fun with allegory.

 

God bless,

William

I thought so...just making sure. Don’t run with that, someone will wrest the baton from you and actually teach it.

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SovereignGrace
6 minutes ago, Just Mike said:

Excellent post best I have read from a practical logical point.

It was well articulated. However, that can be said about smoking, too. I work as a lab tech in a hospital and see ppl literally smoking themselves to death. Yet, nary a word about that. But drink one beer? You’ll get, “You heathen, you’re going to hell for doing that!”

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Just Mike
17 minutes ago, William said:

The "six" pots stand for incomplete man. They were filled with water (spirit) and upon Jesus' command the water blushed and was turned into wine (Gospel).

 

:classic_rolleyes:

What a wonderful analogy, you are in deed so good at things like this. Thanks William.

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Just Mike
9 minutes ago, SovereignGrace said:

It was well articulated. However, that can be said about smoking, too. I work as a lab tech in a hospital and see ppl literally smoking themselves to death. Yet, nary a word about that. But drink one beer? You’ll get, “You heathen, you’re going to hell for doing that!”

I never criticize a person for smoking, or drinking, or over eating, that's not my assigned job, that is the Holy Spirit's. Unless its my son. He smoke a lot per day, his wife begged him to quit to no avail. So I began to pray for him regularly, one day I told him I was going to pray that every time he lit up I was praying the Holy Spirit would convict him of this. He and his wife and daughter went on a month vacation in the RV, his wife and daughter never said one word to him about his smoking. After two weeks on their vacation he called me and said I quit 9 days ago. That was 5 weeks ago and he has not smoked at all. I suspect prayer and his wanting to be a valid witness had the proper results. 

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Innerfire89
1 hour ago, discipler77 said:

LEVITICUS.10:9 = Do not drink wine or intoxicating drink.

 

The danger is alcohol addiction or alcoholism = will result in a sad and short life on earth and risk losing salvation by losing faith while in suffering.

 

Drug and alcohol addiction develops after daily and excessive consumption for about 1 month because normal brain chemistry has been permanently altered or damaged by the drug/alcohol. 

 

Many ignorant, naive, gullible and impressionable youngsters are unaware of the above danger. ...

.

 

In normal people, their brains begin to secrete more stimulating neurotransmitters when the sun rises in the morning(= triggered by light sensors in the eyes), eg serotonin, dopamine, adrenaline, acetyl choline, etc which serve to elevate mood, improve mental concentration, alertness, increase energy level and muscle strength, etc, in order to prepare the body for a day of physical activity to earn their livelihood(= in ancient times, it was farming, hunting, fishing, etc) or to start the work-day.
.......Conversely, their brains begin to secrete more sedating neurotransmitters when the sun sets at night, eg GABA, endorphin(= painkiller and anti-depressant), melatonin(= sleepiness), etc; which serve to slow down(= inhibit) and calm the mind, relax the muscles, numb down any pain/depression, etc, in order to prepare the body for a night of restful sleep.

 

Psychotropic drugs are artificial analogues of these natural neuroT's produced by the brain, ie drugs that mimic neuroT's. Alcohol, heroin, morphine, oxycodone(= opiod painkiller), anxiolytics/sleeping pills, anesthetics, etc are sedatives. Caffeine, nicotine, methamphetamine/ice, cocaine, etc are stimulants.
.......Such artificial drugs cause tempting emotions of euphoria or total calmness and addiction/dependency when they are wrongly and excessively used. Eg Opiod painkillers, anti-anxiety pills and sleeping pills should be taken at the prescribed dosage and for not more than 3 weeks.

 

Also, children of alcoholics(and/or drug-addicts) will inherit alcoholism(= born with altered or damaged DNA/brains, eg crack-babies and meth-babies) and will grow up to experience the associated withdrawal symptoms = abnormal or defective personality. The withdrawal symptoms of alcoholism are symptoms of an over-active, uncalm and over-sensitive brain = nervousness/anxieties, sweaty palms, muscle tics, over-thinking, difficulty falling asleep/insomnia, paranoia, delusions, etc.(Delirium Tremens)

 

This is bc alcohol(and also prescription anxiolytics, depressant, sleeping pills, etc) works by slowing down brain activity, calming the person, relaxing muscles and numbing pain, resulting in sedation, anxiolysis, mental relaxation, elimination of social inhibition, slowed muscle coordination, painlessness, etc.
.......Over-consumption of alcohol result in drunkenness(= brain becomes too slow and too calm) and eventually a comatosed sleep(brain activity stopped) and waking up with hangover headaches.

 

Alcohol, being an analogue of the brain's own naturally-produced neuroT's(= GABA, endorphin, melatonin, etc). When consumed daily and long term(= more than 1 month), it will result in the brain stopping the production of its own neuroTs = the body's/brain's negative-feedback response system. This results in addiction or dependency, ie the altered/damaged-brain requires alcohol intake in order to function normally.

 

Bear in mind that the average adult body eliminates alcohol at a constant rate of about 30ml per hour. What does this mean.?
.......1 bottle of red wine(= 750ml at 13% concentration of alcohol) has about 90ml of alcohol. Drinking 1 bottle of wine at 1 go will leave the body with more than 60ml of alcohol in the bloodstream during the 1st hour. This enhances the calming or sedating effects of alcohol that has been consumed, compared to just drinking 2 glasses of red wine(= no kick). That is why many alcoholics go for binge-drinking, in order to get more "bang"(effects) out of it, ie drinking 2-3 large bottles of beer at one sitting.

 

P S - Women/girls get drunk faster than men/boys, for the same amount of alcohol consumption. Hence, inexperienced girls are more prone to be drunk-raped, eg new college girls or freshies.

 

 

 

 

 

You make some good points, but some not so good.

 

Leviticus 10:9 is deffinitly not an outright command to abstain from alcohol. Just a little contex goes a long way, even quoting the the full verse we can see that Leviticus 10:9 means more than "don't drink wine or strong intoxicating drink.

 

Leviticus 10:1-9

1Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it and laid incense on it and offered unauthorizeda fire before the LORD, which he had not commanded them. 2And fire came out from before the LORD and consumed them, and they died before the LORD. 3Then Moses said to Aaron, “This is what the LORD has said: ‘Among those who are near me I will be sanctified, and before all the people I will be glorified.’” And Aaron held his peace.

4And Moses called Mishael and Elzaphan, the sons of Uzziel the uncle of Aaron, and said to them, “Come near; carry your brothers away from the front of the sanctuary and out of the camp.”5So they came near and carried them in their coats out of the camp, as Moses had said. 6And Moses said to Aaron and to Eleazar and Ithamar his sons, “Do not let the hair of your heads hang loose, and do not tear your clothes, lest you die, and wrath come upon all the congregation; but let your brothers, the whole house of Israel, bewail the burning that the LORD has kindled. 7And do not go outside the entrance of the tent of meeting, lest you die, for the anointing oil of the LORD is upon you.” And they did according to the word of Moses.

8And the LORD spoke to Aaron, saying, 9“Drink no wine or strong drink, you or your sons with you, when you go into the tent of meeting, lest you die. It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations. 10You are to distinguish between the holy and the common, and between the unclean and the clean, 11and you are to teach the people of Israel all the statutes that the LORD has spoken to them by Moses.”

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Faber

Deuteronomy 14:26 taught one can enjoy it. 

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CDF47

Drinking in moderation is fine.  It's crystal clear in the Bible.

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hanna
4 hours ago, CDF47 said:

Drinking in moderation is fine.  It's crystal clear in the Bible.

Yes, I think so, too. Of course in many cases it's wiser not to drink, but to use alcohol in moderation is not a sin.

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CDF47
1 hour ago, hanna said:

Yes, I think so, too. Of course in many cases it's wiser not to drink, but to use alcohol in moderation is not a sin.

Yes, you are right.  Jesus drank wine and turned water into wine.  Even Daniel drank wine I believe.  Wine offerings were made to the Lord in the OT.  Wine and strong drink are throughout the Bible and are fine in moderation.  Now way over drinking and being a drunkard is a bad sin.

Edited by CDF47
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