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  1. Today
  2. Joshpantera

    Can a Christian be Democrat ?

    Hilarious! And good question! @William Equally, are there atheist conservatives? The answer is most certainly yes. Whether conservative libertarians or conservative republicans, we have both among our ranks. It used to be more common to see Christans leaving the faith drop the Republican Party and conservatism, as part of leaving the faith. Not so much at the moment, though. One point of agreement some of us may have with you guys here, is our opinions of what's going on with the left here in the states. It's gotten over the top whacky! Years ago I was more into rebelling against the religious right than I am at present. But the left has gotten so godawful (pardon me), that I've found siding with the left in politics untenable at best. I personally would like to see things more to the tune of libertarian conservative values taking the forefront, but I'm good with having a conservative non-career politician get into office and shake things up a bit. I was just talking about that with some guys at work today. I'm not die hard for Trump, but I'm ok with the fact that the economy is on fire and things are going pretty well as far as I'm concerned. And we got DeSantis here in Florida, which I'm good with as well.
  3. Joshpantera

    Objections to Christianity

    Made me muse a bit. The only representative of Christians is Jesus Christ. And according to the standard by which may be drawn from Scripture and Jesus' example one may glean who "we" truly are. I mean ex-C the website. That derailing going on is unbecoming. A real face palm, to be honest. Put it this way, Jesus certainly had no problem going for the throats of the contemporary religious leaders of the time and place. Those who claimed to be correct and true, authoritative and absolute. The religious authorities had apparently devolved into corruption in various directions. And he didn't mind whipping some tail around. I'm very "Christ-like" myself in terms of whipping some of the contemporary religious leaders around with charges of corruption and misconduct against the people. I'll go for the throat and not back them down an inch as far as that goes. Rub their faces in their own self contradiction, you know, similar to what Jesus was doing in the story. That is a glaring possibility, agreed. I'm glad that you at least have the foresight to admit as much. One thing that we have in common, though, is that the overall intentions involved are geared towards being helpful. And staying true to we each respectively recognize as truth.
  4. Joshpantera

    Objections to Christianity

    That's a little clearer. Thanks. But you did have somewhat of a point the other way too. There's a big number of former Church of Christ members. I should do a poll and see what the highest ranking denominations are among the ex christian community just for the sake of knowing. Just by experience, Church of Christ and Pentecoastals seem pretty dominant. And I can see how they'd both be viewed as questionable by other denominations. But there's others. What I don't find, are many former SDA's like myself. Very few have an online presence. But from what I understand the SDA church has been in decline for some time now. And getting pushed more and more to the third world, as the Catholics have been. But I get what you're saying about "Christlike." Take this conversation for instance. I credit you and William as taking a very, what I would consider "Christlike" attitude towards myself and my peers who joined the discussion. I don't have a problem with the Jesus stories in terms of setting an example to try and do your best, or treat others well. That should not lead to negativity or mental damage. But the political dynamic of spirituality and religious belief seems to be where the damages are done. That's where the emphasis on threatening folks with hell and eternal damnation generally comes from. The consolidation of church power and authority. Authoritarianism, basically.
  5. Yesterday
  6. Joshpantera

    Objections to Christianity

    HI Faber, thanks for the response. I understand that you believe these things. I however, do not believe them. I've deconverted from Christian beliefs. I generally walk people making claims like the above through investigating the evidence they have for these claims, for learning purposes. But I don't think that's what William has in mind for dialogue here. I'm trying to respect the fact that I'm among believers speaking about and trying to represent the position of unbelief. It's a sensitive issue for sure.
  7. Becky

    Objections to Christianity

    I will refer to Williams post Forgetting at times the exact words we use do matter, i offer this correction. " I suggest the indoctrination they received was/is not Christian Christlike "
  8. Joshpantera

    Objections to Christianity

    I guess that depends on which groups they came out of and whether those groups are considered Christian by you.
  9. Once he did not stand for life i thought they would leave him alone.
  10. By Kevin Daley - Democratic U.S. Rep. Joe Neguse of Colorado, a freshman member of the House Judiciary Committee, told constituents that the panel will likely investigate Justice Brett Kavanaugh for perjury. “There’s no question [Kavanaugh] committed perjury during the confirmation hearings and so forth,” Neguse said when asked if the justice might be impeached. “I think the Judiciary Committee is likely to take that up.” A conservative opposition research group obtained and disseminated video of Neguse’s comments. The congressman was not specific as to which of Kavanaugh’s statements might rise to the level of perjury. Democrats have put forward various theories as to how Kavanaugh misled the Senate Judiciary Committee during his confirmation hearings: one theory, which NBC News advanced, held that he lied concerning when he first learned about the allegations of Deborah Ramirez, a Yale classmate who accused Kavanaugh of drunkenly exposing himself to her at a party. In response to questions from lawmakers during his second confirmation hearing, Kavanaugh said he first learned of Ramirez’s claims from the New Yorker, the venue in which her story appeared. NBC subsequently recovered text messages revealing that the justice and his allies were discussing Ramirez’s allegations before the story’s publication, prompting charges of perjury. However, Kavanaugh told Senate investigators before the hearing that he learned Ramirez was searching for witnesses to corroborate her story well in advance the New Yorker story’s publication, thereby belying the perjury charges. The NBC report was stealth edited, and a correction was never issued. Other theories suppose that the justice lied about the contents of his high school yearbook or hid his complicity with a White House staffer who stole strategy memos from Senate Democrats during his service in the George W. Bush administration. Neither of those propositions has been substantiated. Requests for comment from the congressman’s office went unanswered. Kavanaugh has kept a low profile since joining the high court in October 2018. Though the justices often teach in law schools or speak to various professional groups when the Court is not hearing cases, Kavanaugh’s schedule of public engagements appears rather thin. Similarly, his maneuvers on the Court reflect a sense of caution: he joined Chief Justice John Roberts and the liberal bloc to keep the Court out of controversies relating to abortion and the census, while his style at oral argument is deferential and inconspicuous. Democratic U.S. Rep. Jerry Nadler of New York, the new chair of the Judiciary Committee, was overheard discussing a prospective Kavanaugh impeachment at some length on board the Acela train to Washington, D.C. just days after the midterm elections. Content created by The Daily Caller News Foundation is available without charge to any eligible news publisher that can provide a large audience. For licensing opportunities of our original content, please contact [email protected] Judiciary Committee Democrat Floats Perjury Probe Of Justice Brett Kavanaugh is original content from Conservative Daily News - Where Americans go for news, current events and commentary they can trust - Conservative News Website for U.S. News, Political Cartoons and more. View the original full article
  11. By Chris White - House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and congressional Democrats are losing one big voice in their opposition to President Donald Trump’s push for a border wall: The Washington Post’s Editorial Board. WaPo noted in a Sunday editorial reasons why Pelosi should rebuke the president’s most recent offer to temporarily extend protections for the so-called Dreamers. But the paper eventually explained that taking the deal would ultimately help those who came here through the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program. “He should not be rewarded for having taken the government hostage. Any piece of a wall would reinforce his hateful, anti-immigrant rhetoric,” WaPo noted. “He’s unreliable, having made and withdrawn similar offers in the past.” WaPo’s editorial board has blasted Trump in the past for what its writers call pushing immigration policies that would “cripple the economy.” It’s taking a different approach now. Sunday’s editorial explains why young people who came to the U.S. through the Obama-era program are in peril of being deported. If nothing happens soon, then the Dreamers could get the short end of the stick, WaPo noted. “If no deal is reached, the Supreme Court is likely at some point to end that dispensation, as Mr. Trump has demanded, and they will be sent back into the shadows, or to countries of which they have no memory.” Trump offered Pelosi and congressional Democrats a deal on Saturday. His deal included $800 million in urgent humanitarian assistance, $805 million in new drug detection technology, and three years of legal relief from deportation for DACA recipients in exchange for the $5.7 billion for “strategic deployment of physical barriers” Pelosi was not impressed. She preemptively shot down the proposal in a statement before the president’s announcement. Content created by The Daily Caller News Foundation is available without charge to any eligible news publisher that can provide a large audience. For licensing opportunities of our original content, please contact [email protected] ‘Save The Dreamers’: WaPo Implores Pelosi To Take Trump’s Wall Deal is original content from Conservative Daily News - Where Americans go for news, current events and commentary they can trust - Conservative News Website for U.S. News, Political Cartoons and more. View the original full article
  12. By Grace Carr - A blast of Arctic air traveling across the U.S. is expected to hit the Northeast Sunday evening and Monday, freezing melted snow and causing extremely hazardous conditions in a number of states. Meteorologists project that frigid winds will “flash freeze” any water melted from the weekend’s massive snow storm that hit both the Midwest and Northeast U.S. over the weekend, causing hundreds of flight cancellations and delays. “Any water that remains on the road will freeze into a sheet of ice and make conditions quite hazardous,” National Weather Service (NWS) meteorologist Rich Otto said, Reuters reported Sunday. Flash freezing occurs when above-freezing temperatures drop quickly and precipitously to below-freezing temperatures. “Those kind of winds blowing on those power lines and trees that are already stressed from the weight of the ice, I think, is going to be problematic,” Otto also said, according to The New York Times. Sleet and freezing rain is transitioning back to snow across portions of eastern New York, while portions of the Mid-Hudson Valley and NW Connecticut are experiencing light-to-moderate freezing rain! Please send us any snow and ice accumulations! #NYwx #MAwx #VTwx #CTwx pic.twitter.com/YE4PCbvGg7 — NWS Albany (@NWSAlbany) January 20, 2019 “Heavy snow up to 2 feet will be possible across interior Northeastern areas,” the National Weather Service posted in a Sunday alert. Southern New England is also expected to see mass accumulations of ice, bitter cold, and strong gusts of wind. Otto attributed much of the winter storm to “cold air that has been dropping south from Canada,” according to Reuters. He added that the northeast can expect wind gusts between 20 and 30 miles and dangerous windchills of 10 to 30 below zero, Reuters reported. NWS has issued warnings for Massachusetts, Connecticut and New York among other east coast states. Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire are also expected to experience flash freezing. NWS Alert> Strong Thunderstorms From 21 Miles N of Provincetown to Dennis to 9 Miles SW of Chilmark Moving NE At 45 MPH. Wind Gusts to 50 MPH will Accompany These Storms. Locations Impacted Include Barnstable… #mawx https://t.co/hxFTUsNoJW — Massachusetts Weather Alerts (@SimpleWeatherMA) January 20, 2019 NWS Alert> Advisory: Light Additional Ice Accumulation. Very Cold Wind Chills Expected. Wind Chills As Low As 15 Below Zero Expected. Where: N New London County. When: for The Winter Weather Advisory, until 3… #ctwx https://t.co/lPT6e9Axi1 — Connecticut Weather Alerts (@SimpleWeatherCT) January 20, 2019 NWS Alert> Advisory: Periods of Snow & Blowing Snow. Additional Snow Accumulations of 1 to 3" for A Storm Total of 12 to 18 Inches. Dangerously Cold Wind Chills Also Expected. Wind Chills of 20 to 35 Below Zero… #nywx https://t.co/e1XIakvnlQ — New York Weather Alerts (@SimpleWeatherNY) January 20, 2019 Nearly 1,500 flights have been canceled due to dangerous conditions from the winter mix, according to FlightAware.com, Reuters reported. Travel is expected to be difficult Monday, given the federal holiday. Content created by The Daily Caller News Foundation is available without charge to any eligible news publisher that can provide a large audience. For licensing opportunities of our original content, please contact [email protected] Flash Freeze To Hit The US Northeast. Here’s What To Expect is original content from Conservative Daily News - Where Americans go for news, current events and commentary they can trust - Conservative News Website for U.S. News, Political Cartoons and more. View the original full article
  13. Becky

    Objections to Christianity

    I agree while noting we are human and not perfect.
  14. William

    Objections to Christianity

    And in all cases a less than Christlike example was encountered.
  15. William

    Objections to Christianity

    Made me muse a bit. The only representative of Christians is Jesus Christ. And according to the standard by which may be drawn from Scripture and Jesus' example one may glean who "we" truly are. We're sinners having fallen short of God's glory. We are broken people for one reason, another, and the list goes on yet God loved His people when unlovable. When I reflect upon Scripture, I note it wasn't these kinds of people Jesus chased off, but I remember one specific case when Jesus fastened a whip and overturned tables of those in the Temple which were fleecing His flock. I also can draw on various occasions when Christ was repeatedly confronted by those that misrepresent God's word. And not only that, but Christ warned us of those false Christs, Prophets, teachers, etc. Even among our Christian genre it is difficult to run a forum and even more so by Scripture. It is one thing when we apply the Scripture to ourselves but quite another when we hold others to our standard. We run the risk of committing the very acts of those we detest which have victimized others in the name of Christianity.
  16. midniterider

    Objections to Christianity

    I think there's a variety of reasons Christianity did not 'stick' with our Ex-C residents. One is abusive parents teaching Christianity in an abusive way. Other people become obsessive about whether they are good enough in Jesus' eyes and (during and after their period of belief) became filled with fear. Still others say they were just 'unable' to seriously believe what they were taught in church or from the bible. Another recurring theme is people who were on fire for Jesus and wanted to become closer to God so they dived deep into their bibles only to find disturbing or contradictory information that they could not reconcile. And there are other reasons as well. I wont make any judgments here on your forum. Just wanted to put that out there. And I'll wish you all a fine day. Thanks for the invitation and hospitality you've given me (us). Moving back over my forum now.
  17. By Chuck Ross - BuzzFeed is doubling down on its report that Michael Cohen has told the special counsel that President Trump instructed him to lie to Congress about his dealings in Russia Special Counsel Robert Mueller issued a rare statement rebutting BuzzFeed’s story, but BuzzFeed reporter Anthony Cormier said on CNN on Sunday that he has “further confirmation” that his report is accurate But Cormier also acknowledged on CNN that he is still in the dark about specifically what Cohen told the special counsel, and what precisely Trump allegedly told Cohen BuzzFeed editor Ben Smith and reporter Anthony Cormier doubled down Sunday on their bombshell report that President Trump directed Michael Cohen to lie to Congress about his efforts to build a Trump Tower in Russia. “I have further confirmation that this is right. We are being told to stand our ground. Our reporting is going to be borne out to be accurate, and we’re 100 percent behind it,” Cormier told CNN’s Brian Stelter during an interview about their report, which has been directly disputed by the special counsel’s office. “The same sources that we used in the story are standing behind it, and so are we.” But while Smith and Cormier expressed unwavering confidence in their story, the pair declined to discuss the specifics about how their report came together. Cormier dodged Stelter’s questions about documents that his colleague, Jason Leopold, claims to have seen as part of the reporting process. Cormier also acknowledged that he is not certain what Cohen specifically told the special counsel or what Trump allegedly told Cohen. Cormier and Leopold reported Thursday night that Cohen told the special counsel’s office that Trump directed him to lie to Congress in 2017 about his efforts to build a Trump Tower in Moscow during the 2016 presidential campaign. Citing two unnamed law enforcement officials, the reporters claimed that documents and other witness testimony would corroborate Cohen’s version of events. Democrats jumped on the story, calling for investigations into whether Trump suborned perjury or obstructed justice. Nearly 24 hours after the story appeared, a spokesman for Special Counsel Robert Mueller delivered a devastating rebuttal to the report. “BuzzFeed’s description of specific statements to the Special Counsel’s Office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen’s Congressional testimony are not accurate,” spokesman Peter Carr said in a statement. The New York Times and Washington Post have since reported that the statement was intended to be a full-throated rebuttal to the claim that Cohen told Mueller’s office that he was told to lie by Trump. But Smith and Cormier remained confident in the face of the Mueller pushback. “What if the sources are just wrong?” Stelter asked Cormier, who won a Pulitzer Prize in 2016. “They’re not. They’re not. I’m confident,” Cormier replied. But while BuzzFeed is refusing to back off of their story, numerous questions remain about what sources and documents were used for the report. In an interview on Friday morning, prior to the Mueller statement, BuzzFeed’s Leopold told MSNBC that he had seen documents referred to in the report. Cormier said in a separate interview with CNN that he had not seen documents. Cormier avoided Stelter’s question about that apparent discrepancy. “Can’t really get into, like, the details there,” Cormier said. “Really at this point because of the calls for a leak investigation and the sort of sensitivity around that matter, we really can’t go any further at all in order to not jeopardize our sources,” he added, noting that Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani had called for an investigation into who leaked information for the BuzzFeed report. BuzzFeed’s spokesman, Matt Mittenthal, issued a similar statement on Saturday, even before Giuliani had called for a leak probe. “In the interest of protecting … sources, we aren’t going to speak further on the details of who saw what and when, beyond what’s in the reporting,” Mittenthal told The Daily Caller News Foundation. Cormier also suggested that BuzzFeed is not quite certain exactly what Cohen may have told the special counsel and what he and Trump may have discussed regarding the former Trump lawyer’s congressional testimony. “We’re trying to figure out how to parse the statement from the Mueller team, and what’s happening now only behind the scenes at DOJ and the special counsel, but we’re trying to get deeper inside the room where this happened,” Cormier said. When asked by Stelter what is known about Trump’s remarks to Cohen, Cormier replied: “We’ll get there eventually, Brian.” When Stelter suggested that perhaps Trump offered something less than a full-throated order to lie to Congress, Cormier said, “we don’t know.” “We’re trying to get the exact language that was used in this conversation, and we’ll get there one day,” he added. “We continue to report like mad, as we always do. But what we reported, that the President of the United States directed Michael Cohen to lie to Congress is accurate. That is fundamentally accurate. We’re going to get inside the room where it happened and bear it out. We’ve taken this to ground here; we’re going to go even further to get inside that room.” In another exchange, Stelter pressed Smith over Leopold’s efforts to request comment from the special counsel prior to running the story. Leopold contacted Peter Carr, the Mueller spokesman, hours before the story ran to say that BuzzFeed was planning to report that Cohen claimed that Trump instructed him to lie to Congress. The request did not say that Cohen made the claim during interactions with the special counsel. Carr, who rarely offers comment to reporters, declined comment. But according to The Washington Post, Carr has since claimed that if he had known precisely what BuzzFeed was planning to report, he would have pushed back harder on the allegation. Stelter blasted Smith and BuzzFeed for what he called a “shockingly casual way to ask for comment for such a serious story” and a “dereliction of duty.” Smith attempted to shift blame to the special counsel, saying that “it has not been our experience that the special counsel has been forthcoming with information.” Content created by The Daily Caller News Foundation is available without charge to any eligible news publisher that can provide a large audience. For licensing opportunities of our original content, please contact [email protected] BuzzFeed Doubles Down On Trump Story, But Won’t Discuss Documents Or Sources | is original content from Conservative Daily News - Where Americans go for news, current events and commentary they can trust - Conservative News Website for U.S. News, Political Cartoons and more. View the original full article
  18. TABA

    Objections to Christianity

    Mike, I appreciate you taking the time to tell me about your life and the impact that your Christian faith has had on it. I respect you for recognizing that quoting scripture to me would not be helpful. There is no doubt that religious faith has helped many people through the trials of life. I’m sorry you’ve had so many health problems in your life, and I’m delighted that the dire prognosis did not pan out! Nice to know that we are brothers-in-arms, if not in faith: I was Army Aviation 1995-2004. Were you in Vietnam? I am inclined to share why your story, though sincere and heartfelt, does not move me back toward faith. But I want to tread carefully here as a guest in this community of faith. We at Ex-Christian.Net have strict limits on the extent to which Christian visitors may proselytize and I don’t want to barge in here and be seen to be in attack mode. So if it’s OK with you and with William, I will proceed, while doing my best to be honest and respectful; otherwise I will hold my tongue. Best Regards TABA
  19. By Chuck Ross - House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff said Sunday that he will “absolutely” investigate allegations made in a controversial BuzzFeed article even though the report has been directly disputed by the special counsel’s office. “Absolutely. Absolutely,” Schiff told CBS’s “Face the Nation” when asked whether he would investigate allegations laid out in a BuzzFeed article published on Thursday. “Congress has a fundamental interest in two things. First, getting to the bottom why this witness came before us and lied, and who else was knowledgeable that this was a lie,” the California Democrat added. Schiff says Mueller's office may have disputed BuzzFeed report because it wants to use Michael Cohen as witness for more prosecutions, and "wanted to make sure that the public didn't have the perception that he was saying more than he was saying, at least to the special counsel" pic.twitter.com/VqkmBY5Zkd — CBS News (@CBSNews) January 20, 2019 The allegation that the President of the United States may have suborned perjury before our committee in an effort to curtail the investigation and cover up his business dealings with Russia is among the most serious to date. We will do what’s necessary to find out if it’s true. https://t.co/GljBAFqOjh — Adam Schiff (@RepAdamSchiff) January 18, 2019 But in a rare move, the special counsel issued an on-the-record statement disputing the key allegations made in the BuzzFeed story. “BuzzFeed’s description of specific statements to the Special Counsel’s Office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen’s Congressional testimony are not accurate,” Peter Carr, a spokesman for Special Counsel Robert Mueller, said in a statement on Friday night. Schiff said that he assumed the Mueller statement was prompted by the reaction to the BuzzFeed story. “Also it may have to do with the special council wanting to use Michael Cohen as a witness in further prosecutions and wanted to make sure that the public didn’t have the perception he was saying more than he was saying, at least to the special council,” Schiff said. Content created by The Daily Caller News Foundation is available without charge to any eligible news publisher that can provide a large audience. For licensing opportunities of our original content, please contact [email protected] BuzzFeed’s Report Has Been Disputed By Mueller, But Adam Schiff Is Going To Investigate Anyway is original content from Conservative Daily News - Where Americans go for news, current events and commentary they can trust - Conservative News Website for U.S. News, Political Cartoons and more. View the original full article
  20. Faber

    Objections to Christianity

    Matthew 25:46 and Revelation 14:9-11; 20:10, 15 are clear that the lake of fire is real. I think it is healthy to have a negative concept about falling into Niagara Falls.
  21. Faber

    Hello from Singapore!

    Welcome to ChristForums!
  22. Faber

    Objections to Christianity

    When it comes to the big issues, we really do know. God has left us His testimony. He didn't leave us to wander in uncertainty. The claims of Christ are true and life changing. He taught He was God and proved this via His resurrection. The New Testament is an historically credible account of these events.
  23. Becky

    Objections to Christianity

    I suggest the indoctrination they received was/is not Christian.
  24. I had an idea when fire hit the wine country heads would roll. For 25 years, PG&E has recognized its top volunteers with an award named for a former chairman and CEO. PG&E will donate $5,000 to the nonprofit organization of each winner’s choice. I pay for power not for some one else's choice of non-profit SAN FRANCISCO, Calif. — The San Francisco Giants and PG&E celebrate another "green" milestone at AT&T Park. A recent lighting project resulted in a home run of energy savings for AT&T Park and the Giants. In partnership with PG&E, the ballpark recently upgraded more than 556 traditional light bulbs to new energy efficient LED lights. The switch resulted in an energy savings of 290,466 kilowatt hours during the regular baseball season, which is the same amount of energy it takes to power 30 homes. The upgrade also resulted in a rebate of about $260,000. That is my payment for power they are using to rebate millionaires Matching Gift Information During PG&E's annual giving campaign, Pacific Gas & Electric matches donations to select nonprofits which include: Higher education institutions (colleges & universities) K-12 school and foundations Environmental organizations And select other nonprofits Employees can request matching gifts on up to $1,000 of donations. Retirees are eligible to have the first $1,000 of donations matched. PG&E's Matching Gift Submission Process: Employees should submit their match request electronically by logging in to https://pge.yourcause.com while on the company intranet.
  25. Joshpantera

    Objections to Christianity

    That said, I have some issues to take up with the members who have run off acting unrepresentative of ex-C. Our members are generally new to deconversion, as in many less than 5 years. It was a good idea to start the site because there are not a few cases of mental trauma oriented issues in the wake of Christian indoctrination. And I would like to kindly discuss that with you all as well. So much so that a lot of folks actually seek professional counseling in the wake of it. This is for a variety of reasons, but mostly hinges on fear of hell. They've had these negative concepts, presented as positive, pounded into their minds. The very concept of 'believe in the invisible' or 'burn for eternity' tends to haunt some people. So I'm one who will try and reason with them about it. Because I'm immune to that sort of thing. And I may be able to influence them into becoming the same. But it requires grabbing the bull by the horns and doing the leg work of studying everything in depth and in detail. I know too much about these concepts to ever belief them again. There are several fronts of objections that can lead to putting these myths and mythology behind someone, in their rear view. We touched on contradictions and internal inconsistencies from the outset. I mentioned that they carry right on through to the end. That gets peoples attention sometimes. Then when apologist's offer poor responses and solutions, and some one sees and understands that these are not making the situation any better, that can tend to wake them up and open their eyes, as it were. History and archaeology is another big point of objection. They come with their own sets of apologetic's to try and excuse where inconsistencies and problems do exist. Mainly to reach hard for excuses and claim, 'see folks, these are not really a problem.' But they are a problem, and those who are keen enough to understand are usually not won over by poor excuse making. I'm sure you've noticed how tough we tend to be with apologist's. There's something very disingenuous about apologetic's. So the push back can get tough. None of you believe SDAism as true, from the sound of things. But SDA's believe they are absolutely true. They have apologist's like everyone else. Who try and excuse objections to SDAism. Their works theology, will come with apologetic's that try and dance around the issue. I'm getting married again to an SDA women with fairly strict SDA parents. There's no convincing them that they belong to an organization which is incorrect in terms of 'truth claims.' They are 100% conditioned into thinking they are members of the one and only true church of Christ left in the world, awaiting the "End Times." We could look at SDA apologetic's and you would likely see through them. And wonder why people accept these excuses, which are often transparent. Their claims to "The Remnant of Israel," is one example. You can't get anyone to stop believing that unless they themselves begin to notice the problems and question what they are being given as absolutely true. You can lead a horse to water, but you can not make it drink. The horse must drink on it's own. But now imagine, if you will, questioning things. Then turning to questioning everything. And I mean all of it, right down the line. And science not withstanding. The feeling of having no floor beneath you is a sensation that can arise. Now some people who are new to doubt and question, clinging on to science as a replacement for the feeling of stability they felt with religion is a popular and common move. There must be some kind of solid ground to stand on, right? But that's not necessarily right. The more one learns about reality, the more clear it can become that we don't know far more than what we do know (this can be cited if need be). When it comes to the big issues, we really don't know. And that's where coming to terms with UNCERTAINTY is key, absolutely key to over coming these problems that arise from believing and thinking you have truth, when you actually do not. And then realizing for yourself that no, what you accepted as true actually is not very true at all. That's the agnostic aspect of truth seeking. Our purpose is to encourage ex christians and try and help those who are struggling in the wake of harmful results due to their Christian indoctrination. Understanding living with uncertainty, and making good friends with uncertainty is part of that. In fact, I've found, that uncertainty in and of itself is generally where the deepest truths are located. If I'm being honest about it. The mystery of origins, unknown. The mystery of destination, unknown. The mystery of life and death, unknown. The mystery of the true expanse of existence, unknown. Anyone who strays from this and claims that no, any of one these examples really are known - have traditionally failed in establishing the claims. This goes for both scientists and theologians in my experience. But when pressed, the scientists will usually admit as much. Whereas theologians can have a harder time doing so, unless they happen to agnostic theists. Not knowing (agnostic) if God exists, but believing that God exists (theist) despite the lack of knowledge. Then admitting to uncertainty like the scientists do, isn't as much of an issue. Thank you for reading and trying to understand more about the ex-christian community, William.
  26. I'm going to take pictures come the next clear day of the power lines running through trees on my street. I couldn't agree with you more. PG&E has a monopoly and California is supposed to be green sometime in the near future. They're pushing green technology and they still can't make a profit? They're threatening bankruptcy? PG&E Bankruptcy Tests Who Will Pay for California Wildfires - The New York Times WWW.NYTIMES.COM The utility faces $30 billion in potential liability over deadly fires linked to its equipment. Critics say it is pressuring the state to shield it.
  27. William

    Objections to Christianity

    No problem and no pressure! As I have reiterated before I'm learning quite a bit from those that accepted my invitation. Simply to get to know you. Your site is actually placed quite well in Google's search engine when it comes to certain key words for those looking for Christian websites. That's how I found your group as I posted in my first introduction post on your site. I have been reading quite a bit from your members and I must say I think in some ways Apologist need to reevaluate not only apologetic methods, themselves, but the purpose for them evangelizing for Jesus. Having spent hours reading various comments on your board I acknowledge that I feel compassion and can empathize with them. So much damage has been done in the name of Christianity. More than happy to. Relax and enjoy our fellowship. God bless, William
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